[nafex] Jujube: range and cold-hardiness

Henry,
See this link: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jujube.html
Note hardiness given there as 'about -28F'.
Note also very heat and drought tolerant.

At end of link above, is link to Lee Reich's book chapter on jujube; lots
on info therein, and for a number of other fruits grown by NAFEXers. This
book highly recommended.

As for where it grows in central Asia, there is disagreement on the origin
of the plant, whether in Syria, N. Africa, or also in central Asia.
Regardless, was valued in China thousands of years ago, and is very widely
grown there now, with around 400 cultivars. As I noted before, this fruit
is well known to all Chinese students and faculty I've worked with, as well
as Koreans.

I recall some articles posted here, about university trials of some unusual
fruits in the Canadian prairies and upper midwest. There may be data there
on jujube trials. Though keep in mind there may be a range of winter cold
tolerance within the hundreds of cultivars. (This is true for kaki/Asian
persimmons.) Also, note in the link above season of jujube ripening. I
would choose at least some early ripening cultivars, if you get freezes in
Sept. Fruit at our place usually ripens Sept into Oct.

Richard Moyer
SW VA
Where a pummelo for breakfast awaits us.
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Re: [nafex] Jujube--Norris Dam source

Thanks for the info.

Being in mid-continental Zone 4, I have been discouraged when reading about jujubes.

But our growing season does not seem too much different than that being described in the New Mexico mountains.

Does the fruit grow in mid-continental Asia?

--Henry

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 12/29/16, Richard Moyer <ramoyer@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [nafex] Jujube--Norris Dam source
To: "nafex" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, December 29, 2016, 9:06 PM

Henry,
Hidden Springs Nursery sells Norris #1, which is from the
Norris Dam
planting in East TN.  A small, tooth-shaped form, very
sweet, very heavy
bearing in the S. Appalachians.  Tolerant of hot, dry
conditions (for us),
intolerant of afternoon shade.

See this link:
http://www.hiddenspringsnursery.com/plants.php#jujube

Note from the picture at the link, the fruit in that bowl is
of the "Li" or
"Lang" shape, how many of them are not brown, or just a
bit.  In parts of
India and Vietnam, this is how the fruit is preferred, as
I've been told.
Whereas during my time in Korea, and talking with Chinese
coworkers, the
fully brown-shriveled form is most commonly consumed. 
Again, if faced with
a hard freeze, the fruit can be picked and enjoyed at this
'green' stage,
where the color has just started to turn.

P.S.  Remember there are books with info, such as an
"Uncommon Fruits"
chapter by Lee Reich on jujubes, and a book by Roger Meyer
and ? Ashton
devoted to jujubes.  Undoubtedly there are other
sources of info on US
culture of jujubes.  Don't give up on these, if you
happen to have a
cultivar which blooms but does not set fruit for you...
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Re: [nafex] Richard Fahey contact

Hey Murph,

Richard Fahey can be reached at Singing Tree, 588 Turner Rd, Oxford NY 13830. He requests a self addressed/stamped envelope and he will use that to send his variety list. The name has changed a few times from Catholic Homestead but this is the current information. I ordered from him this past spring and everything was in great shape and well labeled. As far as I know he doesn't do online or email.

Good Luck,

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <murphman108@msn.com>
To: "nafex" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 8:47:50 PM
Subject: [nafex] Richard Fahey contact

Hello All;


I am looking for scion wood of large fruited apples.

A friend told me that Richard Fahey may have this variety.

Does anyone know how to contact him?


Thank you.


PS Anybody else have any scion wood of humongous apples?


Murph
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[nafex] Jujube--Norris Dam source

Henry,
Hidden Springs Nursery sells Norris #1, which is from the Norris Dam
planting in East TN. A small, tooth-shaped form, very sweet, very heavy
bearing in the S. Appalachians. Tolerant of hot, dry conditions (for us),
intolerant of afternoon shade.

See this link:
http://www.hiddenspringsnursery.com/plants.php#jujube

Note from the picture at the link, the fruit in that bowl is of the "Li" or
"Lang" shape, how many of them are not brown, or just a bit. In parts of
India and Vietnam, this is how the fruit is preferred, as I've been told.
Whereas during my time in Korea, and talking with Chinese coworkers, the
fully brown-shriveled form is most commonly consumed. Again, if faced with
a hard freeze, the fruit can be picked and enjoyed at this 'green' stage,
where the color has just started to turn.

P.S. Remember there are books with info, such as an "Uncommon Fruits"
chapter by Lee Reich on jujubes, and a book by Roger Meyer and ? Ashton
devoted to jujubes. Undoubtedly there are other sources of info on US
culture of jujubes. Don't give up on these, if you happen to have a
cultivar which blooms but does not set fruit for you...
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[nafex] Richard Fahey contact

Hello All;


I am looking for scion wood of large fruited apples.

A friend told me that Richard Fahey may have this variety.

Does anyone know how to contact him?


Thank you.


PS Anybody else have any scion wood of humongous apples?


Murph
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[nafex] International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders

This is an alternative message archive mirror for this nafex mailing list,
a Google Blogger blog.
It is complete from 2014 to the present.

International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders
http://ifneb.blogspot.com/
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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Richard,

Is there a nursery that sells the trees from Norris Dam?

--Henry

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 12/28/16, Richard Moyer <ramoyer@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [nafex] Jujube
To: "nafex" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 11:04 PM

The recommendation I received was to
plant trees known to fruit in a
climate similar to your own, particularly during times of
pollen shedding.

There are many jujube cultivars from various parts of the
far east, which
have had many long years to adapt to microclimates within
their native
range.

The majority of my trees are from the Norris Dam planting
several counties
west of me, where about 50 cultivars were planted about 70
years ago, and I
have rooted suckers from the survivors with good quality
fruit.

We get thousands of fruit per tree per year from the
above.  Compared to
dozens per tree from Li or Lang, in a good year for
them.  All planted in
the same row.  I can't explain why, other than to
repeat what I've heard
(and now observed), that certain jujubes fruit MUCH better
in some places
than others.

If someone is aware of certain cultivars which fruit heavily
and regularly
in a wide variety of settings throughout the US, including
arid and humid,
please chime in.

Thanks,
Richard
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[nafex] Jujube

Richard: Great answer! Thanks for the response. Jay: You should
collect these and submit them to Pomona if you are a North American
Fruit Explorers member.

Barbara Rosholdt
Z7a central VA
----------------------------------

Jay,
Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.

We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
But our winters are the wettest time of year.

As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
the summer.

For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
them early before the first hard freeze.

So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
either, compared to some other fruits we grow.

In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
dried.

I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
to fruit in areas similar to your climate.

Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.

Richard Moyer
Russell County, SW VA

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[nafex] Cold Hardiness of cultivars

Tree survival in cold temps is strongly related to its level of hardening
off when extreme events occur. The tree shuttles water from cells in
response to gradually colder days in the fall, but fluctuating temps can
reverse this process. Too much water in the cells and they burst. I've
seen even spring events where temps were in the double digits F. kill trees
that in a fully hardened state can take -25 F.

The high desert is not a moderate climate, although I've seen 100 year old
apricots between Taos and Santa Fe near the Rio Grande. River valleys seem
to create micro-climates conducive to tree survival.

There are also soil issues involved- when there is little snow cover roots
seem more vulnerable to cold in shallow or poorly drained soils.
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[nafex] Jujube

The recommendation I received was to plant trees known to fruit in a
climate similar to your own, particularly during times of pollen shedding.

There are many jujube cultivars from various parts of the far east, which
have had many long years to adapt to microclimates within their native
range.

The majority of my trees are from the Norris Dam planting several counties
west of me, where about 50 cultivars were planted about 70 years ago, and I
have rooted suckers from the survivors with good quality fruit.

We get thousands of fruit per tree per year from the above. Compared to
dozens per tree from Li or Lang, in a good year for them. All planted in
the same row. I can't explain why, other than to repeat what I've heard
(and now observed), that certain jujubes fruit MUCH better in some places
than others.

If someone is aware of certain cultivars which fruit heavily and regularly
in a wide variety of settings throughout the US, including arid and humid,
please chime in.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Thanks, Richard.

For the record is it low or high humidity that prevents them from
setting fruit? We have very low humidity.

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 12/28/2016 9:37 PM, Richard Moyer wrote:
> Jay,
> Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
> injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
> Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.
>
> We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
> But our winters are the wettest time of year.
>
> As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
> 3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
> many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
> the summer.
>
> For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
> And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
> them early before the first hard freeze.
>
> So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
> from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
> either, compared to some other fruits we grow.
>
> In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
> brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
> you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
> want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
> dried.
>
> I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
> factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
> fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
> year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
> to fruit in areas similar to your climate.
>
> Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.
>
> Richard Moyer
> Russell County, SW VA
> __________________
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> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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[nafex] Jujube

Jay,
Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.

We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
But our winters are the wettest time of year.

As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
the summer.

For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
them early before the first hard freeze.

So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
either, compared to some other fruits we grow.

In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
dried.

I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
to fruit in areas similar to your climate.

Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.

Richard Moyer
Russell County, SW VA
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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Here is the (very quick) reply from Dr. Shengrui Yao:

Hi Jay,
Winter hardiness is one thing and the other issue is the frost free days-length of growing season. If you season is too short, most cultivars could not be fully mature.
To me, the frost free days is more critical than winter low temperature in your area. But you can get 1-2 cultivars and try it.
Happy Holidays!

Shengrui

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>
> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>
> --Henry Fieldseth
> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>
> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
> I remember the report
> saying that they
> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>
> In any case you inspired me to write directly
> to Dr. Yao to see what she
> thinks.
>
> This is one of the things I
> appreciate about this list so much. Great
> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>
> Jay
> Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
> (505)-281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm
> Mt Time, 7 days
>
> On
> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> >
> Jay
> >
> > The most
> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
> > The authors
> name is Shengrui Yao.
> > Also, Gordon
> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
> in NM.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Has
> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
> >>
> >> I'm in NM
> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
> >>
> >> I'm
> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
> experience?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Jay Cutts
> >>
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> >>
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
> Cards
> >> Lead Author, Barron's
> LSAT Prep Book
> >> (505)-281-0684
> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________
> >> nafex mailing list
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> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >>
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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> >
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> >
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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Thanks, Mark.

I'm not that concerned with late frosts because they do rebloom. The
issue will be that the ENTIRE tops may be killed regularly during the
winter. This would more likely be true of young trees. Maybe once they
are established, only parts of the top would die but it is very iffy
here whether they can ever get that established.

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 12/28/2016 5:53 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> That is a huge difference. Jujubes fruit on the current years growth. They indicated late frost in spring had damaged new growth however more leaves and blooms push and they still got a crop. Also, early and mid season ripening varieties are best for northern NM since the late varieties will not ripen in time.
> The article I mentioned did not include trial results. It is too early for results, however some have fruited for six years straight. They have established trials around the state which will hopefully include your elevation.
>
>
>
>> On Dec 28, 2016, at 7:08 PM, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>>
>> First frost can be late May or even a touch the first week of June. Last frost maybe end of Sept or as late as mid-Oct if we get lucky. It's about two months shorter than 20 minutes away in town!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Cutts
>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
>> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
>> (505)-281-0684
>> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>>
>> On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
>>> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>>>
>>> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>>>
>>> --Henry Fieldseth
>>> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
>>> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>>> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
>>> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
>>> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
>>> I remember the report
>>> saying that they
>>> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>>> In any case you inspired me to write directly
>>> to Dr. Yao to see what she
>>> thinks.
>>> This is one of the things I
>>> appreciate about this list so much. Great
>>> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>>> Regards,
>>> Jay
>>> Jay
>>> Cutts
>>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
>>> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
>>> (505)-281-0684
>>> 10 am to 10 pm
>>> Mt Time, 7 days
>>> On
>>> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
>>> >
>>> Jay
>>> >
>>> > The most
>>> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
>>> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
>>> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
>>> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
>>> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
>>> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
>>> > The authors
>>> name is Shengrui Yao.
>>> > Also, Gordon
>>> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
>>> in NM.
>>> >
>>> > Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
>>> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Has
>>> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm in NM
>>> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
>>> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
>>> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
>>> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
>>> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
>>> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
>>> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
>>> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
>>> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm
>>> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
>>> experience?
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> Jay
>>> >>
>>> >> Jay Cutts
>>> >>
>>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>>> >>
>>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>>> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
>>> Cards
>>> >> Lead Author, Barron's
>>> LSAT Prep Book
>>> >> (505)-281-0684
>>> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> __________________
>>> >> nafex mailing list
>>> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
>>> Experimenters
>>> >>
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>> >
>>> __________________
>>> > nafex mailing
>>> list
>>> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit
>>> Experimenters
>>> >
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>> >
>>> __________________
>>> nafex
>>> mailing list
>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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Re: [nafex] Jujube

That is a huge difference. Jujubes fruit on the current years growth. They indicated late frost in spring had damaged new growth however more leaves and blooms push and they still got a crop. Also, early and mid season ripening varieties are best for northern NM since the late varieties will not ripen in time.
The article I mentioned did not include trial results. It is too early for results, however some have fruited for six years straight. They have established trials around the state which will hopefully include your elevation.

> On Dec 28, 2016, at 7:08 PM, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>
> First frost can be late May or even a touch the first week of June. Last frost maybe end of Sept or as late as mid-Oct if we get lucky. It's about two months shorter than 20 minutes away in town!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
> (505)-281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>
> On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
>> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>>
>> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>>
>> --Henry Fieldseth
>> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
>> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
>> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
>> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
>> I remember the report
>> saying that they
>> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>> In any case you inspired me to write directly
>> to Dr. Yao to see what she
>> thinks.
>> This is one of the things I
>> appreciate about this list so much. Great
>> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>> Regards,
>> Jay
>> Jay
>> Cutts
>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
>> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
>> (505)-281-0684
>> 10 am to 10 pm
>> Mt Time, 7 days
>> On
>> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
>> >
>> Jay
>> >
>> > The most
>> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
>> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
>> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
>> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
>> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
>> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
>> > The authors
>> name is Shengrui Yao.
>> > Also, Gordon
>> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
>> in NM.
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
>> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Has
>> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
>> >>
>> >> I'm in NM
>> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
>> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
>> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
>> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
>> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
>> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
>> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
>> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
>> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
>> >>
>> >> I'm
>> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
>> experience?
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Jay
>> >>
>> >> Jay Cutts
>> >>
>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>> >>
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
>> Cards
>> >> Lead Author, Barron's
>> LSAT Prep Book
>> >> (505)-281-0684
>> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________
>> >> nafex mailing list
>> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
>> Experimenters
>> >>
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> >
>> __________________
>> > nafex mailing
>> list
>> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit
>> Experimenters
>> >
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> >
>> __________________
>> nafex
>> mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> __________________
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>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
>
> __________________
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> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

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Re: [nafex] Jujube

First frost can be late May or even a touch the first week of June. Last
frost maybe end of Sept or as late as mid-Oct if we get lucky. It's
about two months shorter than 20 minutes away in town!

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>
> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>
> --Henry Fieldseth
> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>
> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
> I remember the report
> saying that they
> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>
> In any case you inspired me to write directly
> to Dr. Yao to see what she
> thinks.
>
> This is one of the things I
> appreciate about this list so much. Great
> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>
> Jay
> Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
> (505)-281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm
> Mt Time, 7 days
>
> On
> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> >
> Jay
> >
> > The most
> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
> > The authors
> name is Shengrui Yao.
> > Also, Gordon
> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
> in NM.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Has
> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
> >>
> >> I'm in NM
> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
> >>
> >> I'm
> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
> experience?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Jay Cutts
> >>
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> >>
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
> Cards
> >> Lead Author, Barron's
> LSAT Prep Book
> >> (505)-281-0684
> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________
> >> nafex mailing list
> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >>
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> __________________
> > nafex mailing
> list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
>
> __________________
> nafex
> mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>

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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Alcalde is 1300 to 2000 feet lower. Huge difference. And if I do
remember, the NMSU report may have said that they had trouble getting
fruit to set at that elevation. I've got an email in to the author of
the article.

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>
> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>
> --Henry Fieldseth
> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>
> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
> I remember the report
> saying that they
> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>
> In any case you inspired me to write directly
> to Dr. Yao to see what she
> thinks.
>
> This is one of the things I
> appreciate about this list so much. Great
> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>
> Jay
> Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
> (505)-281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm
> Mt Time, 7 days
>
> On
> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> >
> Jay
> >
> > The most
> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
> > The authors
> name is Shengrui Yao.
> > Also, Gordon
> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
> in NM.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Has
> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
> >>
> >> I'm in NM
> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
> >>
> >> I'm
> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
> experience?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Jay Cutts
> >>
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> >>
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
> Cards
> >> Lead Author, Barron's
> LSAT Prep Book
> >> (505)-281-0684
> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________
> >> nafex mailing list
> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >>
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> __________________
> > nafex mailing
> list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
>
> __________________
> nafex
> mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>

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Re: [nafex] Jujube

How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?

Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?

--Henry Fieldseth
Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM

Thanks, Mark. I had seen
the original research report. I thought Alcalde
was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
I remember the report
saying that they
weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.

In any case you inspired me to write directly
to Dr. Yao to see what she
thinks.

This is one of the things I
appreciate about this list so much. Great
expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!

Regards,

Jay

Jay
Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm
Mt Time, 7 days

On
12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
>
Jay
>
> The most
recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
hardiness to -30C or -22F.
> The authors
name is Shengrui Yao.
> Also, Gordon
Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
in NM.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
<orders@cuttsreviews.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Has
anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
>>
>> I'm in NM
at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
>>
>> I'm
concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
experience?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Cutts
>>
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>>
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
Cards
>> Lead Author, Barron's
LSAT Prep Book
>> (505)-281-0684
>> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>>
>>
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit
Experimenters
>>
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
__________________
> nafex mailing
list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit
Experimenters
>
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>

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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Thanks, Mark. I had seen the original research report. I thought Alcalde
was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think I remember the report
saying that they weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.

In any case you inspired me to write directly to Dr. Yao to see what she
thinks.

This is one of the things I appreciate about this list so much. Great
expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> Jay
>
> The most recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50 cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde. It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a hardiness to -30C or -22F.
> The authors name is Shengrui Yao.
> Also, Gordon Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness in NM.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
>>
>> I'm in NM at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25), wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry, American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
>>
>> I'm concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any experience?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Cutts
>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
>> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
>> (505)-281-0684
>> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>>
>>
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>

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Re: [nafex] Jujube

Jay

The most recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50 cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde. It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a hardiness to -30C or -22F.
The authors name is Shengrui Yao.
Also, Gordon Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness in NM.

Mark

> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
>
> I'm in NM at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25), wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry, American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
>
> I'm concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any experience?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
> (505)-281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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[nafex] Jujube

Has anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?

I'm in NM at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've tried here
that ought to grow in even colder climates but which get their tops
killed in the winter. I think it's a combination of temperature (record
lows have been -25), wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The
trees that have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons eventually get
tough enough growth to survive, but any grafted plants lose the grafted
portion.

I'm concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any experience?

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days


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Re: [nafex] Is Urban Homestead still in business?

Murph,

Derek Mills at Hocking Hills/Four Cabins in Ohio has an impressive list. I've done business with him and have scions reserved for next year. Some people find some of his scions slim. I adjust the graft accordingly. A number of my apples yield slim twigs, too.


I recently got registered for Roodremarks, which may be the same source as Urban Homestead and have yet to read any posts. Death comes all too soon.

Yours for a fruitful season,


Dave Liezen


________________________________
From: nafex <nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org> on behalf of Richard <murphman108@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:23 AM
To: nafex
Subject: [nafex] Is Urban Homestead still in business?

Dear NAFEX squad;


Does anyone know if oldvaapples.com in Bristol VA is still in business?


Tim Hensley, the owner, has died; way too young. Nice guy, too.


The email address on their website gave me a 'postmaster no go'


urbanhomestead@aol.com doesn't work.


Also, does anyone know a decent apple scion wood source other than Fedco, Maple Valley, and Masonville?


Thank you all.


Murph

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[nafex] Nick Botner's collection

Permission has been granted to reprint the article in Pomona as long as the source is acknowledged at the head of the article. I sent a note to Jackie.

Pete Tallman

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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

So, my last attempt to keep the kaki/hybrid seedlings safe was to bury
the tree pots vertically in a previously established raised garden bed
that had been covered with a horse manure and pine shavings mixture,
then mulched with spoiled hay last September.

During burial, I pulled the hay away from the area, but finished by
pushing the manure mixture to the outside edge of the fully buried pots
(voles have seemed to like the hay, but not the manure mixture). I
mulched the top of the pots with coarse, clean gravel and enclosed the
top of the pots and the gravel with a ring of 6 inch high hardware
cloth. I think I will sprinkle some mole max around the area.

Wish me luck.

Betsy


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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning

The PDB version, according to the sites I cited, is less toxic but still toxic enough to pose a significant hazard to pets, children, and wildlife.

I didn't know they were used by beekeepers. Hope they're right that the PDB is actually not taken up; and that those who do so have the storage area closed to prevent access by critters. The BT sounds to me like a lot better idea.



-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think
Fresh-market organic produce, small scale


On Dec 11, 2016, at 7:26 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote:

> Re Mothballs...
>
> Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) mothballs are commonly used by beekeepers to
> protect stored comb from attack by wax moths. Beekeepers are warned to NOT
> use the napthalene Mothballs variety, as it is absorbed by the wax comb,
> whereas the PDB is (supposedly) not.
>
> Based on this and other warning I have seen for napthalene, whenever I buy
> mothballs (very infrequently), I always buy the PDB variety.
>
> I don't use Mothballs for comb protection, by the way - I protect my comb
> with a light spray of a particular strain of BT.
>
> -Pete
> Kennett Square PA - 6b





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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning

Re Mothballs...

Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) mothballs are commonly used by beekeepers to
protect stored comb from attack by wax moths. Beekeepers are warned to NOT
use the napthalene Mothballs variety, as it is absorbed by the wax comb,
whereas the PDB is (supposedly) not.

Based on this and other warning I have seen for napthalene, whenever I buy
mothballs (very infrequently), I always buy the PDB variety.

I don't use Mothballs for comb protection, by the way - I protect my comb
with a light spray of a particular strain of BT.

-Pete
Kennett Square PA - 6b
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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning

To all:

Wishing you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Car/Ontario



-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Rhora
Sent: December 11, 2016 6:58 AM
To: 'mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters'
Subject: Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning

Touché! Yes, they are very toxic! Most manmade chemicals are in this
category.

This was added (mouth balls) to a comment upon another member, who suggested
"moth balls" as a possible deterrent.

Personally, I use an electronic device in all my planting of seeds and care
of young seedlings. They work extremely well. Even during the snow covered
winter.

Not sure this is permitted, but for more information, please visit my
revamped website at; www.nuttrees.com for more information on the above.

Charles: wainfleet, ON, Zone 4.



-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End
Farm
Sent: December 10, 2016 4:19 PM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning


On Dec 10, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Charles Rhora wrote:

> Moth balls will keep voles away from trees.
>
>

Mothballs are actually pretty toxic stuff.

http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poison/mothballs/

http://blogs.webmd.com/health-ehome/2011/02/are-mothballs-safe.html

http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/mothball/health.html

If you've got to use them, at least please make sure that nothing (wild,
domestic, or human) can get at them.


-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce,
small scale




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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4728/13571 - Release Date: 12/10/16

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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning

Touché! Yes, they are very toxic! Most manmade chemicals are in this
category.

This was added (mouth balls) to a comment upon another member, who suggested
"moth balls" as a possible deterrent.

Personally, I use an electronic device in all my planting of seeds and care
of young seedlings. They work extremely well. Even during the snow covered
winter.

Not sure this is permitted, but for more information, please visit my
revamped website at; www.nuttrees.com for more information on the above.

Charles: wainfleet, ON, Zone 4.



-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End
Farm
Sent: December 10, 2016 4:19 PM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning


On Dec 10, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Charles Rhora wrote:

> Moth balls will keep voles away from trees.
>
>

Mothballs are actually pretty toxic stuff.

http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poison/mothballs/

http://blogs.webmd.com/health-ehome/2011/02/are-mothballs-safe.html

http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/mothball/health.html

If you've got to use them, at least please make sure that nothing (wild,
domestic, or human) can get at them.


-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce,
small scale




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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4728/13571 - Release Date: 12/10/16

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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings -- mothballs warning

On Dec 10, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Charles Rhora wrote:

> Moth balls will keep voles away from trees.
>
>

Mothballs are actually pretty toxic stuff.

http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poison/mothballs/

http://blogs.webmd.com/health-ehome/2011/02/are-mothballs-safe.html

http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/mothball/health.html

If you've got to use them, at least please make sure that nothing (wild, domestic, or human) can get at them.


-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think
Fresh-market organic produce, small scale




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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

American persimmons and Paw Paw's will survive here in climatic zone 4 - temperatures to -35 degrees.
Tried Some Kaki and lotus from Korea several years ago (they were growing and producing crops at temperatures to -30 degrees). Still have some growing, but have not produced any fruit to date. Moth balls will keep voles away from trees.

Charles.

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ehilborn@mebtel.net
Sent: December 9, 2016 4:52 PM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

Thanks folks. Since this discussion I have moved my kakis into a bed of soil and buried them However, how do you protect the young seedlings' stems from voles? I'm afraid to pack straw or other material around the stems.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Matt Demmon <mdemmon@gmail.com>
Date: 12/09/2016 3:55 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

Jerry,

You are correct in that I did not mulch above the soil surface, or only to an 1" or so depth. It sounds like heaping it up will help. I was mostly trying to point out that in my experience, many species will survive in pots above ground with minimal care (serviceberry, elderberry, apple, plum,
etc.) but paw paw and persimmon will not in my climate, and it sounds like not in yours either!

Matt

z5 SE MI

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 11/30/2016 5:02 PM, Matt Demmon wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what your overwintering plan is, but in my experience
>> wintering seedlings in pots, persimmons are some of the most
>> difficult. I generally experience 100% death if they are kept outside
>> above ground over winter, even in a sheltered location or with leaves
>> or chips mounded around the pots. Same with paw paws, BTW.
>>
> Matt,
>
> I will say (write) this with tongue-in-cheek. Chips and leaves don't
> offer enough protection if there only packed around the pots to the
> surface of the soil in the pots. I think if you had it 12 inches over
> the top of the soil in the pots the root system would receive
> sufficient insulation to survive. Some years back I had a number of
> kaki seedlings in the soil and I packed wood chips around them to a
> depth of 12 inches which completely covered the little seedlings. They
> survived and one day when the temperature was 0°F I took a thermometer
> and inserted it down into the wood chips to a depth of about 6 inches
> and the temperature at that level was 20°. I'm curious, if you had
> mulched above the soil levels in the pot how deep was it?
>
> Jerry
>
> __________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
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Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4728/13564 - Release Date: 12/09/16

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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

On 12/9/2016 4:51 PM, ehilborn@mebtel.net wrote:
> Thanks folks. Since this discussion I have moved my kakis into a bed of soil and buried them However, how do you protect the young seedlings' stems from voles? I'm afraid to pack straw or other material around the stems.
Well, you got me as I don't have an answer. hopefully someone else on
this chat and it does. Voles aren't a big problem here so I've not had
to face the problem. I wonder what would happen if you were to take some
mothballs, crushed them and sprinkle them near the base before you put
the mulch around them. I also wonder if woodchips would be a better
mulch than straw as I think woodchips would be less inviting, not as
easy to make a nest in. Just guessing.

Jerry
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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

On 12/9/2016 3:55 PM, Matt Demmon wrote:
> but paw paw and persimmon will not in my climate, and it sounds like
> not in yours either!
Matt,

No they don't. We almost always get down to 0F several times in Jan.
-10 maybhe every other year. Record low here in 1997 was -31F.

Jerry
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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

Thanks folks. Since this discussion  I have moved my kakis into a bed of soil and buried them However, how do you protect the young seedlings' stems from voles? I'm afraid to pack straw or other material around the stems.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Matt Demmon <mdemmon@gmail.com>
Date: 12/09/2016 3:55 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

Jerry,

You are correct in that I did not mulch above the soil surface, or only to
an 1" or so depth. It sounds like heaping it up will help. I was mostly
trying to point out that in my experience, many species will survive in
pots above ground with minimal care (serviceberry, elderberry, apple, plum,
etc.) but paw paw and persimmon will not in my climate, and it sounds like
not in yours either!

Matt

z5 SE MI

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 11/30/2016 5:02 PM, Matt Demmon wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what your overwintering plan is, but in my experience
>> wintering seedlings in pots, persimmons are some of the most difficult. I
>> generally experience 100% death if they are kept outside above ground over
>> winter, even in a sheltered location or with leaves or chips mounded
>> around
>> the pots. Same with paw paws, BTW.
>>
> Matt,
>
> I will say (write) this with tongue-in-cheek. Chips and leaves don't offer
> enough protection if there only packed around the pots to the surface of
> the soil in the pots. I think if you had it 12 inches over the top of the
> soil in the pots the root system would receive sufficient insulation to
> survive. Some years back I had a number of kaki seedlings in the soil and I
> packed wood chips around them to a depth of 12 inches which completely
> covered the little seedlings. They survived and one day when the
> temperature was 0°F I took a thermometer and inserted it down into the wood
> chips to a depth of about 6 inches and the temperature at that level was
> 20°. I'm curious, if you had mulched above the soil levels in the pot how
> deep was it?
>
> Jerry
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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Re: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings

Jerry,

You are correct in that I did not mulch above the soil surface, or only to
an 1" or so depth. It sounds like heaping it up will help. I was mostly
trying to point out that in my experience, many species will survive in
pots above ground with minimal care (serviceberry, elderberry, apple, plum,
etc.) but paw paw and persimmon will not in my climate, and it sounds like
not in yours either!

Matt

z5 SE MI

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 11/30/2016 5:02 PM, Matt Demmon wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what your overwintering plan is, but in my experience
>> wintering seedlings in pots, persimmons are some of the most difficult. I
>> generally experience 100% death if they are kept outside above ground over
>> winter, even in a sheltered location or with leaves or chips mounded
>> around
>> the pots. Same with paw paws, BTW.
>>
> Matt,
>
> I will say (write) this with tongue-in-cheek. Chips and leaves don't offer
> enough protection if there only packed around the pots to the surface of
> the soil in the pots. I think if you had it 12 inches over the top of the
> soil in the pots the root system would receive sufficient insulation to
> survive. Some years back I had a number of kaki seedlings in the soil and I
> packed wood chips around them to a depth of 12 inches which completely
> covered the little seedlings. They survived and one day when the
> temperature was 0°F I took a thermometer and inserted it down into the wood
> chips to a depth of about 6 inches and the temperature at that level was
> 20°. I'm curious, if you had mulched above the soil levels in the pot how
> deep was it?
>
> Jerry
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
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Re: [nafex] Nick Botner's collection

By all means, yes, go for it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacquelyn Kuehn
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 12:15 PM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] Nick Botner's collection

Pete, may I print the article in the next Pomona?

Thanks.

Jackie

Jacquelyn Kuehn

pennsacreskitchen.net

> On Dec 6, 2016, at 6:17 AM, nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>
> Send nafex mailing list submissions to
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Temperate Orchard Conservancy (Pete Tallman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 11:17:35 +0000
> From: Pete Tallman <pete_tallman@hotmail.com>
> To: nafex <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [nafex] Temperate Orchard Conservancy
> Message-ID:
> <DM3PR18MB08445A47D44C29538F8B5D60E3820@DM3PR18MB0844.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Article for and about apple variety lovers. This is a monumental project underway in Oregon to save Nick Botner's collection. There was a presentation about this at a NAFEX meeting in Oregon a few years back.
>
> http://civileats.com/2016/12/05/where-have-all-the-apples-gone-and-can-these-farmers-bring-them-back/
>
> Pete Tallman
> Louisville, CO
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of nafex Digest, Vol 193, Issue 3
> *************************************

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