Northamerican Alied Fruit Experimenters

Northamerican Alied Fruit Experimenters
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Thursday, April 30, 2020

Re: [nafex] If you had one blueberry bush...

Hi, Glenda. Two blueberry I have had great success with are Berkely and Jersey. I am in Zone 6a, Pastor Chuck Orchards, Cushing, Maine. Good fortune. Waite Maclin

Also, I have had luck with putting either garden netting or remay over my bushes to protect from critters.

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 8:34 AM, Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us> wrote:
>
> I have a lot of blueberry bushes, but I don't get any berries because the birds and chipmunks eat them all. I also have a large cage, about 3'x4' and about 8' high, that I built to protect a "Carmine Jewel" cherry.
>
> The cherry is overgrowing the cage. More importantly, I don't love it. It doesn't have a lot of "zing". So I'm thinking of taking it out, and wondered what i could grow in the cage.
>
> A large blueberry bush! That would fit nicely. And I adore blueberries.
>
> But I only have space to protect one. So I want the very best. That would mean:
> Lots of flavor (more small berries are almost certainly better than fewer large berries)
> Lots of total fruit
> I tend to prefer fruits on the sour side, and often find very sweet fruit bland
> Of course, it has to be hardy where I live, eastern MA, zone 6. The soil isn't super-acidic, but all those other blueberry bushes seem to do okay, except for the fruit all going away before it's ripe.
>
> I like a somewhat firm blueberry, but some of the firmest ones don't feel life blueberries to me. I don't want my blueberries t crunch.
>
> So, what blueberry would you recommend?
>
> Many thanks,
> Ginda Fisher
> eastern MA, zone 6
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C. Waite Maclin
Communication Specialist
Maclin Consulting
P.O. Box 4096
Portland, Maine 04101
207-939-2793

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[nafex] If you had one blueberry bush...

I have a lot of blueberry bushes, but I don't get any berries because the birds and chipmunks eat them all. I also have a large cage, about 3'x4' and about 8' high, that I built to protect a "Carmine Jewel" cherry.

The cherry is overgrowing the cage. More importantly, I don't love it. It doesn't have a lot of "zing". So I'm thinking of taking it out, and wondered what i could grow in the cage.

A large blueberry bush! That would fit nicely. And I adore blueberries.

But I only have space to protect one. So I want the very best. That would mean:
Lots of flavor (more small berries are almost certainly better than fewer large berries)
Lots of total fruit
I tend to prefer fruits on the sour side, and often find very sweet fruit bland
Of course, it has to be hardy where I live, eastern MA, zone 6. The soil isn't super-acidic, but all those other blueberry bushes seem to do okay, except for the fruit all going away before it's ripe.

I like a somewhat firm blueberry, but some of the firmest ones don't feel life blueberries to me. I don't want my blueberries t crunch.

So, what blueberry would you recommend?

Many thanks,
Ginda Fisher
eastern MA, zone 6
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Sunday, April 26, 2020

Re: [nafex] prafilm M and buddy tape results

Exactly. Paraffilm is clean and easy to use, I have a lifetime supply, and I see no reason NOT to wrap the whole scion. Much easier to do that than to also fuss with a sealant.

I'm sure lots of different grafting methods work. I like paraffilm because it's so easy. It cuts with scissors or a sharp knife, and I apply it with my fingers. Cleanup is just throwing away the little paper backer.
--
Ginda
typed with Swype, who knows what I intended.


On April 26, 2020 8:47:29 AM EDT, Louis Pittman <lpittman@murraystate.edu> wrote:
>Is it 'overkill' to wrap the entire scion with Parafilm, as opposed to
>just sealing the apical end?
>I don't know, but I have no intention of backing away from wrapping
>graft
>union and scion, in its entirety, particularly for nut tree grafts.
>It's quick to do...I feel better about longterm protection against
>scion
>dessication, and buds push right through a couple layers of fully
>stretched
>Parafilm.
>Some pecan/hickory and walnut grafts I made on 6 March are just now
>beginning to open buds, nearly 2 months later. Would they have dried
>out
>in the interim if not fully wrapped?
>
>Again, maybe not at all necessary for apples/pears, and I rarely do
>any
>stonefruits - but I wouldn't attempt nuts, oaks, persimmons without it.
>
>It's 'cheap insurance'...I can buy a 2"x250' roll of Parafilm M for
>less
>than $20...enough to do at least 750-1000 typical pecan or pear grafts
>here.
>And, it's not at all messy; strips of Parafilm in my grafting kit don't
>spill or stick to stuff.
>
>Lucky Pittman
>
>On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 8:27 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/25/2020 7:40 PM, Idell Weydemeyer wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Comparison of use or not of Parafilm or buddy tape.
>> >
>> > In Santa Rosa, rootstocks were grafted for a later plant sale for
>the
>> > redwood California Rare fruit chapter.--probably over 50- maybe up
>to 80
>> > plants. Not sure if the pots were 5 or 10 gallon ones.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "In general looking at the prunus grafts from our March 8 event, a
>> general
>> > observation.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The grafts that are looking great and doing quite well, seem to be
>all
>> the
>> > scions where the tips were covered with parafilm or buddy tape.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The grafts that didn't take or are quite slow were from scions
>where the
>> > tips were not covered with parafilm/ buddy tape."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Idell Weydemeyer
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________
>> > nafex mailing list
>> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
>> Idell,
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by the 'tips'. If it is the end opposite
>to
>> the graft end, I usually paint that end with wood sealer. If there
>is
>> no sealing of the outer tips, like with a sealant wood filler, the
>> moisture will escape out that tip and dry out the scion. Where I
>make
>> use of tapes like Parafilm is around the graft union where the graft
>> itself exposes a large part of the cambium to drying out. I see no
>need
>> to wrap the entire scion, since the bark around it should prevent
>drying
>> out along it's length. Wrapping the entire scion may not be as
>> effective as just closing off the end with a sealant.
>>
>> Sherwin
>>
>> __________________
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>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
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Re: [nafex] prafilm M and buddy tape results

Is it 'overkill' to wrap the entire scion with Parafilm, as opposed to
just sealing the apical end?
I don't know, but I have no intention of backing away from wrapping graft
union and scion, in its entirety, particularly for nut tree grafts.
It's quick to do...I feel better about longterm protection against scion
dessication, and buds push right through a couple layers of fully stretched
Parafilm.
Some pecan/hickory and walnut grafts I made on 6 March are just now
beginning to open buds, nearly 2 months later. Would they have dried out
in the interim if not fully wrapped?

Again, maybe not at all necessary for apples/pears, and I rarely do any
stonefruits - but I wouldn't attempt nuts, oaks, persimmons without it.

It's 'cheap insurance'...I can buy a 2"x250' roll of Parafilm M for less
than $20...enough to do at least 750-1000 typical pecan or pear grafts here.
And, it's not at all messy; strips of Parafilm in my grafting kit don't
spill or stick to stuff.

Lucky Pittman

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 8:27 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:

> On 4/25/2020 7:40 PM, Idell Weydemeyer wrote:
> >
> >
> > Comparison of use or not of Parafilm or buddy tape.
> >
> > In Santa Rosa, rootstocks were grafted for a later plant sale for the
> > redwood California Rare fruit chapter.--probably over 50- maybe up to 80
> > plants. Not sure if the pots were 5 or 10 gallon ones.
> >
> >
> >
> > "In general looking at the prunus grafts from our March 8 event, a
> general
> > observation.
> >
> >
> >
> > The grafts that are looking great and doing quite well, seem to be all
> the
> > scions where the tips were covered with parafilm or buddy tape.
> >
> >
> >
> > The grafts that didn't take or are quite slow were from scions where the
> > tips were not covered with parafilm/ buddy tape."
> >
> >
> >
> > Idell Weydemeyer
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> Idell,
>
> Not sure what you mean by the 'tips'. If it is the end opposite to
> the graft end, I usually paint that end with wood sealer. If there is
> no sealing of the outer tips, like with a sealant wood filler, the
> moisture will escape out that tip and dry out the scion. Where I make
> use of tapes like Parafilm is around the graft union where the graft
> itself exposes a large part of the cambium to drying out. I see no need
> to wrap the entire scion, since the bark around it should prevent drying
> out along it's length. Wrapping the entire scion may not be as
> effective as just closing off the end with a sealant.
>
> Sherwin
>
> __________________
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> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
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Saturday, April 25, 2020

Re: [nafex] prafilm M and buddy tape results

On 4/25/2020 7:40 PM, Idell Weydemeyer wrote:
>
>
> Comparison of use or not of Parafilm or buddy tape.
>
> In Santa Rosa, rootstocks were grafted for a later plant sale for the
> redwood California Rare fruit chapter.--probably over 50- maybe up to 80
> plants. Not sure if the pots were 5 or 10 gallon ones.
>
>
>
> "In general looking at the prunus grafts from our March 8 event, a general
> observation.
>
>
>
> The grafts that are looking great and doing quite well, seem to be all the
> scions where the tips were covered with parafilm or buddy tape.
>
>
>
> The grafts that didn't take or are quite slow were from scions where the
> tips were not covered with parafilm/ buddy tape."
>
>
>
> Idell Weydemeyer
>
>
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

  Idell,

   Not sure what you mean by the 'tips'.  If it is the end opposite to
the graft end, I usually paint that end with wood sealer.  If there is
no sealing of the outer tips, like with a sealant wood filler, the
moisture will escape out that tip and dry out the scion.  Where I make
use of tapes like Parafilm is around the graft union where the graft
itself exposes a large part of the cambium to drying out.  I see no need
to wrap the entire scion, since the bark around it should prevent drying
out along it's length.  Wrapping the entire scion may not be as
effective as just closing off the end with a sealant.

               Sherwin

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[nafex] prafilm M and buddy tape results

Comparison of use or not of Parafilm or buddy tape.

In Santa Rosa, rootstocks were grafted for a later plant sale for the
redwood California Rare fruit chapter.--probably over 50- maybe up to 80
plants. Not sure if the pots were 5 or 10 gallon ones.



"In general looking at the prunus grafts from our March 8 event, a general
observation.



The grafts that are looking great and doing quite well, seem to be all the
scions where the tips were covered with parafilm or buddy tape.



The grafts that didn't take or are quite slow were from scions where the
tips were not covered with parafilm/ buddy tape."



Idell Weydemeyer



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Friday, April 24, 2020

[nafex] (modern, commercial) Apple varieties chart.

[image: AppleVarietyChart.png]


--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en

Re: [nafex] grafting tape

On 4/24/2020 12:32 PM, Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett wrote:
> My experience is mostly with parafilm grafting tape; when fresh, it works great. When aged, it loses its stretchiness and its self adhesion, making it hard to work with. I was given some old Parafilm M one time, and it was like old parafilm grafting tape--a bitch to work with, and not very effective. With either one, I wrap the join first with a grafting rubber for strength, then the tape. Although I may wrap the entire scion except the join section with the parafilm before joining them, since it's easier to do before there is a tender joint to protect. My two cents.Muffy Barrett
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
>
> Sherwin,
> Parafilm M is used in laboratory applications to diminish moisture loss; it
> does have some gas permeability...however, I'm unaware of it ever being
> used in a medical setting as a wound dressing...and I am a scientist and
> medical professional(BS in Microbiology, DVM, residency in Pathology).
>
> Are there other grafting tapes that work as well? Perhaps.
> In my experience, as others have attested, apples & pears probably require
> little, but wrapping the union and scion, in its entirety, is a great boon
> for slow-callusing species like pecan, persimmon, oak, etc., which,
> additionally, are often grafted later in the season, when temperatures and
> sunlight levels are more likely to cause desiccation of the scion.
> Parafilm is certainly less troublesome than having to maintain a pot of
> melted grafting wax, particularly when grafting in the field, and less
> messy than a wax toilet ring.
> Buds will push right through well-stretched Parafilm M (it stretches to
> 200% of its original length), and there's no need to cut or remove anything
> later in the season.
>
> But...again, Parafilm M has virtually NO structural strength...graft unions
> must be bound/supported with something...be it masking tape, rubber bands,
> electrical tape or other grafting/budding tape...some of which may require
> cutting or removal to prevent subsequent girdling.
>
> My minimal experience with the Parafilm Grafting Tape product was that it
> did not stretch as thinly, nor did it self-adhere, as does Parafilm M. I
> just did not like it, and saw no reason to switch away from what I'd
> learned to use from the outset of my experience as a grafter.
>
> Lucky Pittman
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:04 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/22/2020 4:44 AM, Alan Haigh wrote:
>>> As mentioned, the use of parafilm is to hold in moisture, I doubt it lets
>>> any oxygen in. I use electric tape to hold my splice grafts together and
>>> then wrap my scion with the parafilm. Pears and apples don't really need
>> it
>>> and a dab of some kind of sealant at the tip is generally adequate.
>>>
>>> Vinyl electric tape can eventually girdle apple grafts but peach growth
>> is
>>> strong enough to force it to stretch. A longitudinal cut with a razor
>> knife
>>> after the tissue is merged and strong is sometimes needed, but if you
>>> unwrap it when the bark isn't slipping you can usually get away with that
>>> without peeling off any bark. Alternatively, you can use rubber electric
>>> tape which stretches much more than vinyl.
>>>
>>> Where the parafilm seems useful and even necessary is with stonefruit,
>>> persimmon and paw paw grafts.
>>>
>>> I exclusively use splice grafts because they are the quickest and require
>>> the least skill, especially if you use a double bladed Italian pruning
>>> shear to cut the scion and annual shoot (or 2nd year) you are grafting
>>> together. If you match diameters any idiot can do it without ever cutting
>>> their fingers. The trick is to make long diagonal cuts of scion and
>> mother
>>> wood as close to the same as you can. This creates a lot of matching
>>> cambium.
>>> __________________
>>> nafex mailing list
>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> Alan,
>>
>> There are many kinds of grafting tapes that can retain the moisture
>> of a graft union. People have been known to use masking tape and other
>> such products that should moisture seal the graft. Parafilm will also
>> breath as it does in its usage in the medical world where wounds do
>> better with exposure to air. Question is, does the Parafilm have any
>> advantage over other grafting tapes because it allows air to reach the
>> graft union?
>>
>> Sherwin
>>
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
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  Muffy,

   I don't understand the need of wrapping the entire scion with tape. 
I would think just wrapping the graft union and applying some kind of
sealer to the tip would do the job.

       Sherwin

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[nafex] Idell's remark on grafting peaches

"those who I know do it successfully wit until the weather is much
warmer"

On the forum in which I am a staff-member, growingfruit.org, we discuss the
best time to graft peaches and plums regularly and by my experience, it
isn't necessary enough to wait until the weather is warm, whether you mean
in the '60's, 70's or 80's. These days I spread my grafting to try to find
the sweet spot for peaches and nects and I begin to believe there is none.
I always wait at least until petal fall and continue for a month.

Some years they take well and others they don't, but once again, I'm not
being scientific enough about it by matching weather records with success,
but based on the testimony of many members there doesn't really seem to be
a precise rhyme or reason we've come up with.

Plums are something between peaches and apples in terms of percentage of
successful grafts, and right now I'm working on the assumption that you can
successfully graft Japanese plums earlier in the season than E. plums. One
very thoughtful grafter who claims a very high percentage of takes grafts
J. plums at first growth.

This year spring has been so cool, I just don't feel like doing a lot of
grafting, no matter how the wood may feel about it. Done quite a few apple
grafts and as an experiment, several J. plums. Tomorrow I will do more of
both- warmest day in a while. I'm looking forward to better bee and fly
activity in remaining peach, nect and plum blossoms here in S. NY.
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Re: [nafex] grafting tape

My experience is mostly with parafilm grafting tape; when fresh, it works great. When aged, it loses its stretchiness and its self adhesion, making it hard to work with. I was given some old Parafilm M one time, and it was like old parafilm grafting tape--a bitch to work with, and not very effective. With either one, I wrap the join first with a grafting rubber for strength, then the tape. Although I may wrap the entire scion except the join section with the parafilm before joining them, since it's easier to do before there is a tender joint to protect. My two cents.Muffy Barrett

---------- Original Message ----------

Sherwin,
Parafilm M is used in laboratory applications to diminish moisture loss; it
does have some gas permeability...however, I'm unaware of it ever being
used in a medical setting as a wound dressing...and I am a scientist and
medical professional(BS in Microbiology, DVM, residency in Pathology).

Are there other grafting tapes that work as well? Perhaps.
In my experience, as others have attested, apples & pears probably require
little, but wrapping the union and scion, in its entirety, is a great boon
for slow-callusing species like pecan, persimmon, oak, etc., which,
additionally, are often grafted later in the season, when temperatures and
sunlight levels are more likely to cause desiccation of the scion.
Parafilm is certainly less troublesome than having to maintain a pot of
melted grafting wax, particularly when grafting in the field, and less
messy than a wax toilet ring.
Buds will push right through well-stretched Parafilm M (it stretches to
200% of its original length), and there's no need to cut or remove anything
later in the season.

But...again, Parafilm M has virtually NO structural strength...graft unions
must be bound/supported with something...be it masking tape, rubber bands,
electrical tape or other grafting/budding tape...some of which may require
cutting or removal to prevent subsequent girdling.

My minimal experience with the Parafilm Grafting Tape product was that it
did not stretch as thinly, nor did it self-adhere, as does Parafilm M. I
just did not like it, and saw no reason to switch away from what I'd
learned to use from the outset of my experience as a grafter.

Lucky Pittman



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:04 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:

> On 4/22/2020 4:44 AM, Alan Haigh wrote:
> > As mentioned, the use of parafilm is to hold in moisture, I doubt it lets
> > any oxygen in. I use electric tape to hold my splice grafts together and
> > then wrap my scion with the parafilm. Pears and apples don't really need
> it
> > and a dab of some kind of sealant at the tip is generally adequate.
> >
> > Vinyl electric tape can eventually girdle apple grafts but peach growth
> is
> > strong enough to force it to stretch. A longitudinal cut with a razor
> knife
> > after the tissue is merged and strong is sometimes needed, but if you
> > unwrap it when the bark isn't slipping you can usually get away with that
> > without peeling off any bark. Alternatively, you can use rubber electric
> > tape which stretches much more than vinyl.
> >
> > Where the parafilm seems useful and even necessary is with stonefruit,
> > persimmon and paw paw grafts.
> >
> > I exclusively use splice grafts because they are the quickest and require
> > the least skill, especially if you use a double bladed Italian pruning
> > shear to cut the scion and annual shoot (or 2nd year) you are grafting
> > together. If you match diameters any idiot can do it without ever cutting
> > their fingers. The trick is to make long diagonal cuts of scion and
> mother
> > wood as close to the same as you can. This creates a lot of matching
> > cambium.
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> Alan,
>
> There are many kinds of grafting tapes that can retain the moisture
> of a graft union. People have been known to use masking tape and other
> such products that should moisture seal the graft. Parafilm will also
> breath as it does in its usage in the medical world where wounds do
> better with exposure to air. Question is, does the Parafilm have any
> advantage over other grafting tapes because it allows air to reach the
> graft union?
>
> Sherwin
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
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Re: [nafex] parafilm

Re peaches. I fid them very difficult to graft and those who I know do it
successfully wit until the weather is much warmer than when I graft apples,
pears, plums, pluots, etc.

Idell Weydemeyer in El Sobrante CA

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex <nafex-bounces+iwgarden=earthlink.net@lists.ibiblio.org> On
Behalf Of Alan Haigh
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 4:39 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] parafilm

Sherwin asks, " does the Parafilm have any advantage over other grafting
tapes because it allows air to reach the graft union?"

Dunno, I'm a tree farmer not a scientist, not even an amateur one. I've
always used vinyl tape or sometimes rubber to join scion to mother wood.
Pears and apples take so consistently that any advantage would be minor.

I'd be interested in a comparison of materials for splice grafts of peaches
though. My percentage of takes on peaches and nects swing wildly year to
year for reasons this non-scientist is unable to explain.
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Re: [nafex] grafting tape

Sherwin,
Parafilm M is used in laboratory applications to diminish moisture loss; it
does have some gas permeability...however, I'm unaware of it ever being
used in a medical setting as a wound dressing...and I am a scientist and
medical professional(BS in Microbiology, DVM, residency in Pathology).

Are there other grafting tapes that work as well? Perhaps.
In my experience, as others have attested, apples & pears probably require
little, but wrapping the union and scion, in its entirety, is a great boon
for slow-callusing species like pecan, persimmon, oak, etc., which,
additionally, are often grafted later in the season, when temperatures and
sunlight levels are more likely to cause desiccation of the scion.
Parafilm is certainly less troublesome than having to maintain a pot of
melted grafting wax, particularly when grafting in the field, and less
messy than a wax toilet ring.
Buds will push right through well-stretched Parafilm M (it stretches to
200% of its original length), and there's no need to cut or remove anything
later in the season.

But...again, Parafilm M has virtually NO structural strength...graft unions
must be bound/supported with something...be it masking tape, rubber bands,
electrical tape or other grafting/budding tape...some of which may require
cutting or removal to prevent subsequent girdling.

My minimal experience with the Parafilm Grafting Tape product was that it
did not stretch as thinly, nor did it self-adhere, as does Parafilm M. I
just did not like it, and saw no reason to switch away from what I'd
learned to use from the outset of my experience as a grafter.

Lucky Pittman



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:04 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:

> On 4/22/2020 4:44 AM, Alan Haigh wrote:
> > As mentioned, the use of parafilm is to hold in moisture, I doubt it lets
> > any oxygen in. I use electric tape to hold my splice grafts together and
> > then wrap my scion with the parafilm. Pears and apples don't really need
> it
> > and a dab of some kind of sealant at the tip is generally adequate.
> >
> > Vinyl electric tape can eventually girdle apple grafts but peach growth
> is
> > strong enough to force it to stretch. A longitudinal cut with a razor
> knife
> > after the tissue is merged and strong is sometimes needed, but if you
> > unwrap it when the bark isn't slipping you can usually get away with that
> > without peeling off any bark. Alternatively, you can use rubber electric
> > tape which stretches much more than vinyl.
> >
> > Where the parafilm seems useful and even necessary is with stonefruit,
> > persimmon and paw paw grafts.
> >
> > I exclusively use splice grafts because they are the quickest and require
> > the least skill, especially if you use a double bladed Italian pruning
> > shear to cut the scion and annual shoot (or 2nd year) you are grafting
> > together. If you match diameters any idiot can do it without ever cutting
> > their fingers. The trick is to make long diagonal cuts of scion and
> mother
> > wood as close to the same as you can. This creates a lot of matching
> > cambium.
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> Alan,
>
> There are many kinds of grafting tapes that can retain the moisture
> of a graft union. People have been known to use masking tape and other
> such products that should moisture seal the graft. Parafilm will also
> breath as it does in its usage in the medical world where wounds do
> better with exposure to air. Question is, does the Parafilm have any
> advantage over other grafting tapes because it allows air to reach the
> graft union?
>
> Sherwin
>
> __________________
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> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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[nafex] parafilm

Sherwin asks, " does the Parafilm have any
advantage over other grafting tapes because it allows air to reach the
graft union?"

Dunno, I'm a tree farmer not a scientist, not even an amateur one. I've
always used vinyl tape or sometimes rubber to join scion to mother wood.
Pears and apples take so consistently that any advantage would be minor.

I'd be interested in a comparison of materials for splice grafts of peaches
though. My percentage of takes on peaches and nects swing wildly year to
year for reasons this non-scientist is unable to explain.
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Thursday, April 23, 2020

Re: [nafex] grafting tape

On 4/22/2020 4:44 AM, Alan Haigh wrote:
> As mentioned, the use of parafilm is to hold in moisture, I doubt it lets
> any oxygen in. I use electric tape to hold my splice grafts together and
> then wrap my scion with the parafilm. Pears and apples don't really need it
> and a dab of some kind of sealant at the tip is generally adequate.
>
> Vinyl electric tape can eventually girdle apple grafts but peach growth is
> strong enough to force it to stretch. A longitudinal cut with a razor knife
> after the tissue is merged and strong is sometimes needed, but if you
> unwrap it when the bark isn't slipping you can usually get away with that
> without peeling off any bark. Alternatively, you can use rubber electric
> tape which stretches much more than vinyl.
>
> Where the parafilm seems useful and even necessary is with stonefruit,
> persimmon and paw paw grafts.
>
> I exclusively use splice grafts because they are the quickest and require
> the least skill, especially if you use a double bladed Italian pruning
> shear to cut the scion and annual shoot (or 2nd year) you are grafting
> together. If you match diameters any idiot can do it without ever cutting
> their fingers. The trick is to make long diagonal cuts of scion and mother
> wood as close to the same as you can. This creates a lot of matching
> cambium.
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

   Alan,

   There are many kinds of grafting tapes that can retain the moisture
of a graft union.  People have been known to use masking tape and other
such products that should moisture seal the graft. Parafilm will also
breath as it does in its usage in the medical world where wounds do
better with exposure to air.  Question is, does the Parafilm have any
advantage over other grafting tapes because it allows air to reach the
graft union?

                  Sherwin

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Wednesday, April 22, 2020

Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

The other thing I used before Parafilm was rubber grafting bands (also used
with the Parafilm) was Doc Farwell's grafting seal - that may be misspelled
it has been a long time ago.

sent from my Galaxy S9
919-357-0863

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 08:19 Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us> wrote:

> I use Parafilm because
> 1) someone recommended it when I started grafting, and I'd previously used
> it in a lab and knew that I would find it easy to use.
> 2) We used melted wax at the grafting class I took (we literally picked up
> the little potted graftling and dipped the graft into a pot of hot wax) and
> I knew that would be really hard for me to do. (I went so far as to try it
> once with a brush. Didn't work because the wax cooled too fast, and
> cleaning the pot and the brush were both troublesome.)
> 3) I bought a lifetime supply of it years ago (I don't do all that much
> grafting.)
> 4) It work.
>
> I use grafting rubber bands to tie up the graft, and then I cover it with
> parafilm. The rubber bands by themselves don't keep the graft moist enough
> — I did that experiment. I also tried using masking tape, which some
> NAFEXers have reported success with, but that didn't work for me. It didn't
> usually provide enough stability and it never kept the graft moist enough.
> Maybe my propensity to little twisty twigs when I graft is the issue.
>
> So I have returned to parafilm and rubber bands. The parafilm by itself
> doesn't provide the physical support the graft needs to hold the pieces
> together. It might work for a bud graft, but I mostly do twig grafts. I
> usually remove most of the parafilm and rubber a couple years later, but
> that's not necessary, the tree will just push them apart. A sprouting bud
> can easily burst through the parafilm.
>
> My understanding is that the Romans tied their grafts with twine and then
> slapped some fresh cow manure over the joint to protect it and keep it
> moist.
>
> I don't think the graft needs to "breath", as witnessed by the success of
> "dip it in paraffin".
>
> Ginda Fisher
> Eastern MA, zone 6
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 2020, at 7:19 PM, sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
> reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows the
> graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm? Other
> grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
> >
> > Sherwin Dubren
> >
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
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Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

I use Parafilm because
1) someone recommended it when I started grafting, and I'd previously used it in a lab and knew that I would find it easy to use.
2) We used melted wax at the grafting class I took (we literally picked up the little potted graftling and dipped the graft into a pot of hot wax) and I knew that would be really hard for me to do. (I went so far as to try it once with a brush. Didn't work because the wax cooled too fast, and cleaning the pot and the brush were both troublesome.)
3) I bought a lifetime supply of it years ago (I don't do all that much grafting.)
4) It work.

I use grafting rubber bands to tie up the graft, and then I cover it with parafilm. The rubber bands by themselves don't keep the graft moist enough — I did that experiment. I also tried using masking tape, which some NAFEXers have reported success with, but that didn't work for me. It didn't usually provide enough stability and it never kept the graft moist enough. Maybe my propensity to little twisty twigs when I graft is the issue.

So I have returned to parafilm and rubber bands. The parafilm by itself doesn't provide the physical support the graft needs to hold the pieces together. It might work for a bud graft, but I mostly do twig grafts. I usually remove most of the parafilm and rubber a couple years later, but that's not necessary, the tree will just push them apart. A sprouting bud can easily burst through the parafilm.

My understanding is that the Romans tied their grafts with twine and then slapped some fresh cow manure over the joint to protect it and keep it moist.

I don't think the graft needs to "breath", as witnessed by the success of "dip it in paraffin".

Ginda Fisher
Eastern MA, zone 6


> On Apr 21, 2020, at 7:19 PM, sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows the graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm? Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
>
> Sherwin Dubren
>
> __________________
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> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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Re: [nafex] grafting tape

Spot on, Alan.
I use parafilm on everything, but its probably not necessary on apples &
pears.
Rubber bands photodegrade fairly quickly, so I generally donteorry about
them girdling.
I used dome black vinyl electrical tape last week on some 3-4 inch
calleries that I cut off and bark-grafted with 3 or 4 scions each. zeill
have to come back later and cut it to prevent girdling but they are close
to the house and easy to find.


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 4:44 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:

> As mentioned, the use of parafilm is to hold in moisture, I doubt it lets
> any oxygen in. I use electric tape to hold my splice grafts together and
> then wrap my scion with the parafilm. Pears and apples don't really need it
> and a dab of some kind of sealant at the tip is generally adequate.
>
> Vinyl electric tape can eventually girdle apple grafts but peach growth is
> strong enough to force it to stretch. A longitudinal cut with a razor knife
> after the tissue is merged and strong is sometimes needed, but if you
> unwrap it when the bark isn't slipping you can usually get away with that
> without peeling off any bark. Alternatively, you can use rubber electric
> tape which stretches much more than vinyl.
>
> Where the parafilm seems useful and even necessary is with stonefruit,
> persimmon and paw paw grafts.
>
> I exclusively use splice grafts because they are the quickest and require
> the least skill, especially if you use a double bladed Italian pruning
> shear to cut the scion and annual shoot (or 2nd year) you are grafting
> together. If you match diameters any idiot can do it without ever cutting
> their fingers. The trick is to make long diagonal cuts of scion and mother
> wood as close to the same as you can. This creates a lot of matching
> cambium.
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
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[nafex] grafting tape

As mentioned, the use of parafilm is to hold in moisture, I doubt it lets
any oxygen in. I use electric tape to hold my splice grafts together and
then wrap my scion with the parafilm. Pears and apples don't really need it
and a dab of some kind of sealant at the tip is generally adequate.

Vinyl electric tape can eventually girdle apple grafts but peach growth is
strong enough to force it to stretch. A longitudinal cut with a razor knife
after the tissue is merged and strong is sometimes needed, but if you
unwrap it when the bark isn't slipping you can usually get away with that
without peeling off any bark. Alternatively, you can use rubber electric
tape which stretches much more than vinyl.

Where the parafilm seems useful and even necessary is with stonefruit,
persimmon and paw paw grafts.

I exclusively use splice grafts because they are the quickest and require
the least skill, especially if you use a double bladed Italian pruning
shear to cut the scion and annual shoot (or 2nd year) you are grafting
together. If you match diameters any idiot can do it without ever cutting
their fingers. The trick is to make long diagonal cuts of scion and mother
wood as close to the same as you can. This creates a lot of matching
cambium.
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Tuesday, April 21, 2020

Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

I have used Parafilm M for many years . (we by rolls of it to sell in
pieces at our scion exchanges). I like it to keep in the moisture and use
it to wrap the entire scion . Since i do not take it off, if I have lost a
tag, I can tell from the state of the film if it is a 1, 2 or 3 year old
graft and then can look up in my records and do a process of elimination
for identification .For strength, I use florist stretchy green tape to tie
the join and the scion area and leave a longish tail on it of several
inches -- works very well since I can see and easily find a graft in the
summer in the leaves. The green tape is taken off at the end of the year.

Idell

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex <nafex-bounces+iwgarden=earthlink.net@lists.ibiblio.org> On
Behalf Of Louis Pittman
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 7:01 PM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
<nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

I have used Parafilm M for 25 years...do not like the Parafilm 'grafting
tape'.
That said, I use Parafilm ONLY to seal in moisture...It does NOT provide any
significant support strength, so I always overwrap the graft union with at
least a couple of wraps of masking tape...or, more frequently, masking tape
and then a rubber band.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 6:19 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
> reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows
> the graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm?
> Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
>
> Sherwin Dubren
>
> __________________
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> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
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Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

24 years ago some fine person in Nafex turned me onto rubber splicing tape
for W&T grafts, I personally can't imagine anything more suitable. I've
done probably 1500 grafts with it. The rubber is very stretchy, seals to
itself, gives great support when overlapped, and even sun-rots in case you
forget to remove it. '3M Temflex Splicing Tape' is one brand, about $3 at a
big box store. Del Stubbs, n MN

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 8:08 PM Louis Pittman <lpittman@murraystate.edu>
wrote:

> I have used Parafilm M for 25 years...do not like the Parafilm 'grafting
> tape'.
> That said, I use Parafilm ONLY to seal in moisture...It does NOT provide
> any significant support strength, so I always overwrap the graft union with
> at least a couple of wraps of masking tape...or, more frequently, masking
> tape and then a rubber band.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 6:19 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
> > reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows
> > the graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm?
> > Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
> >
> > Sherwin Dubren
> >
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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--
Del, 2b/3a n. Mn
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Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

On 4/21/2020 8:00 PM, Louis Pittman wrote:
> I have used Parafilm M for 25 years...do not like the Parafilm 'grafting
> tape'.
> That said, I use Parafilm ONLY to seal in moisture...It does NOT provide
> any significant support strength, so I always overwrap the graft union with
> at least a couple of wraps of masking tape...or, more frequently, masking
> tape and then a rubber band.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 6:19 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
>> reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows
>> the graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm?
>> Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
>>
>> Sherwin Dubren
>>
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
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  Hi Louis,

   I see the terms Parafilm M and Grafting Tape used interchangeably.  
Does the M stand for medical?  If the only requirement of a good graft
is to keep it moist, would not a non-permeable tape do the same job.  I
know one person using a product calledScotch 2242 Electrical Splicing
Tape that he winds around the graft with the sticky surface on the
outside.  It is probably waterproof, so would that do the same job as
Parafilm M?  I was told that some old timers have used things like
masking tape with good success.  Other than keeping the graft moist, I
see no additional benefit the Parafilm M offers for breath-ability. 
Maybe, I am missing the point.

Sherwin

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Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

I have used Parafilm M and grafting bands with great success.

sent from my Galaxy S9
919-357-0863

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 21:07 Louis Pittman <lpittman@murraystate.edu> wrote:

> I have used Parafilm M for 25 years...do not like the Parafilm 'grafting
> tape'.
> That said, I use Parafilm ONLY to seal in moisture...It does NOT provide
> any significant support strength, so I always overwrap the graft union with
> at least a couple of wraps of masking tape...or, more frequently, masking
> tape and then a rubber band.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 6:19 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
> > reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows
> > the graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm?
> > Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
> >
> > Sherwin Dubren
> >
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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Re: [nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

I have used Parafilm M for 25 years...do not like the Parafilm 'grafting
tape'.
That said, I use Parafilm ONLY to seal in moisture...It does NOT provide
any significant support strength, so I always overwrap the graft union with
at least a couple of wraps of masking tape...or, more frequently, masking
tape and then a rubber band.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 6:19 PM sherwin <sherwindu@att.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
> reasonable results. I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows
> the graft to breath. Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm?
> Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?
>
> Sherwin Dubren
>
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[nafex] Grafting Tape Choices

Hi,

Many of the orchardists I know use non-breathable grafting tape with
reasonable results.  I usually use Parafilm because I think it allows
the graft to breath.  Is this an unnecessary reason to use Parafilm? 
Other grafting tapes can also be applied easily, so why use Parafilm?

                  Sherwin Dubren

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Friday, April 17, 2020

Monday, April 13, 2020

Re: [nafex] Stayman apple + sources Re: Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

> On Apr 13, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The answer to the question as to whether this list is still available and
> fully functioning, it is.


Lurking on this issue; but glad to see the list alive!



-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think
Fresh-market organic produce, small scale




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Re: [nafex] Stayman apple + sources Re: Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:37 PM Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us> wrote:

> Years ago I lived in Princeton, NJ, and bought apples from Terhune Orchard
> every fall. Their Stayman Winesaps were excellent, perhaps their best
> apple.
>

The old, large, grainy, winey, crisp, tart Stayman-Stayman Winesap that I
sampled does very well here in Orange-Alamance Counties NC Zone 7. The tree
my apples came from was/is full size/climbable and very healthy, no
disease, full size good looking apples.

I think I will make a project out of this.

The answer to the question as to whether this list is still available and
fully functioning, it is.

LL

>
> But apples grow differently in different places. They had some apples that
> I really enjoy in New England that just never reached their potential in
> too-warm-for-them Princeton. So, depending on where you live, it might or
> might not be the exact apple you want. ;)
>
> Ginda Fisher
> Eastern MA, zone 6
>
> > On Apr 13, 2020, at 7:58 AM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=Stayman+apple&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
> > The *Stayman*-Winesap's firm yellow flesh; crisp, coarse texture; and its
> > tart, rich wine-like taste makes it memorable. Some say it smells like
> > cinnamon.
> > Stayman-Winesap Apples - Terhune Orchards
> > www.terhuneorchards.com
> >
> > This is the exact apple I am looking for.
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:53 AM Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense,
> is
> >>> larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
> >>> misleading and too long.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the update. I will pursue the Stayman. Stark sells their
> >> grafted Stayman Starkspur Winesap,
> >> which is not cedar apple rust resistant. They may have discontinued it
> by
> >> now. I will check their catalog.
> >> Is Stayman CAR resistant? I have a real problem with it on my property.
> >>
> >>> __________________
> >>> nafex mailing list
> >>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> >> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> >> Avant Geared
> >> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> >> <
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking
> >
> >> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > Avant Geared
> > walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> > <
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking
> >
> > https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
> > __________________
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lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
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Re: [nafex] Stayman apple + sources Re: Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

Years ago I lived in Princeton, NJ, and bought apples from Terhune Orchard every fall. Their Stayman Winesaps were excellent, perhaps their best apple.

But apples grow differently in different places. They had some apples that I really enjoy in New England that just never reached their potential in too-warm-for-them Princeton. So, depending on where you live, it might or might not be the exact apple you want. ;)

Ginda Fisher
Eastern MA, zone 6

> On Apr 13, 2020, at 7:58 AM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Stayman+apple&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
> The *Stayman*-Winesap's firm yellow flesh; crisp, coarse texture; and its
> tart, rich wine-like taste makes it memorable. Some say it smells like
> cinnamon.
> Stayman-Winesap Apples - Terhune Orchards
> www.terhuneorchards.com
>
> This is the exact apple I am looking for.
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:53 AM Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense, is
>>> larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
>>> misleading and too long.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the update. I will pursue the Stayman. Stark sells their
>> grafted Stayman Starkspur Winesap,
>> which is not cedar apple rust resistant. They may have discontinued it by
>> now. I will check their catalog.
>> Is Stayman CAR resistant? I have a real problem with it on my property.
>>
>>> __________________
>>> nafex mailing list
>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
>> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
>> Avant Geared
>> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>> <https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
>> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Avant Geared
> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> <https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
> __________________
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> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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Re: [nafex] Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:31 AM Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett <
bluestem_farm@juno.com> wrote:

> It's true that Stayman and winesap are different. Lawrence had asked
> about Stayman, so I answered. I also have a Starks 'Winesap' from circa
> 1990; it isn't nearly as good. I remember hearing or reading an apple
> specialist saying that Winesap, like Red Delicious, has been selected
> progressively for more commercial characterists, and has lost flavor as a
> consequence. He then went on to say that no Winesap after 1950 was worth
> growing;

That is what I suspected. Ones I bought from grocers were nothing like the
ones I ate from the tree in Alamance County, which were like the
description you gave of yours. I will be very interested in buying one or
two from you next year. At least they will be growing in yet another known
location and I will learn how to propagate it myself.

LL


> my reaction was relief that my older variety had just slipped under the
> wire. It has been highly disease resistant so far. It generates big
> beautiful fruit with no spraying. Small scabs, no CAR that I remember(some
> wild trees turn orange with it, so it is around), so far not much fire
> blight. Good, not high, flavor.
> Muffy Barrett
> ---------- Original Message ----------
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense, is
> > larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
> > misleading and too long.
> >
>
> Thanks for the update. I will pursue the Stayman. Stark sells their grafted
> Stayman Starkspur Winesap,
> which is not cedar apple rust resistant. They may have discontinued it by
> now. I will check their catalog.
> Is Stayman CAR resistant? I have a real problem with it on my property.
>
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Avant Geared
> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>
> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
> __________________
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> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
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Re: [nafex] Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

It's true that Stayman and winesap are different. Lawrence had asked about Stayman, so I answered. I also have a Starks 'Winesap' from circa 1990; it isn't nearly as good. I remember hearing or reading an apple specialist saying that Winesap, like Red Delicious, has been selected progressively for more commercial characterists, and has lost flavor as a consequence. He then went on to say that no Winesap after 1950 was worth growing; my reaction was relief that my older variety had just slipped under the wire. It has been highly disease resistant so far. It generates big beautiful fruit with no spraying. Small scabs, no CAR that I remember(some wild trees turn orange with it, so it is around), so far not much fire blight. Good, not high, flavor.
Muffy Barrett
---------- Original Message ----------


On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:

> Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense, is
> larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
> misleading and too long.
>

Thanks for the update. I will pursue the Stayman. Stark sells their grafted
Stayman Starkspur Winesap,
which is not cedar apple rust resistant. They may have discontinued it by
now. I will check their catalog.
Is Stayman CAR resistant? I have a real problem with it on my property.

> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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>


--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared

https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
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[nafex] Stayman apple + sources Re: Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

https://www.google.com/search?q=Stayman+apple&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
The *Stayman*-Winesap's firm yellow flesh; crisp, coarse texture; and its
tart, rich wine-like taste makes it memorable. Some say it smells like
cinnamon.
Stayman-Winesap Apples - Terhune Orchards
www.terhuneorchards.com

This is the exact apple I am looking for.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:53 AM Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense, is
>> larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
>> misleading and too long.
>>
>
> Thanks for the update. I will pursue the Stayman. Stark sells their
> grafted Stayman Starkspur Winesap,
> which is not cedar apple rust resistant. They may have discontinued it by
> now. I will check their catalog.
> Is Stayman CAR resistant? I have a real problem with it on my property.
>
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Avant Geared
> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> <https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
>
>
>
>
>

--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
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Re: [nafex] Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:

> Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense, is
> larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
> misleading and too long.
>

Thanks for the update. I will pursue the Stayman. Stark sells their grafted
Stayman Starkspur Winesap,
which is not cedar apple rust resistant. They may have discontinued it by
now. I will check their catalog.
Is Stayman CAR resistant? I have a real problem with it on my property.

> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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--
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lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
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[nafex] Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett

Stayman and Winesap are different cultivars. Stayman isn't as dense, is
larger and sweeter. We should discard the name Stayman Winesap, it is
misleading and too long.
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Sunday, April 12, 2020

Re: [nafex] The passing of Creighton Lee Calhoun: Winesap

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 8:39 PM Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett <
bluestem_farm@juno.com> wrote:

> I have graftlings from the Starks 1948 Staymared Winesap that my parents
> planted when they first bought their property. I only cut a small amount
> of scionwood for this year, and the buds have already started expanding so
> you'll need to get in touch next year, Lawrence, if you want that. I used
> the last of the Winesaps from the root cellar 2 or 3 days ago.Muffy Barrett.
>

Now I know that the Winesap is the apple I am looking for. The ones I was
given from a tree in Alamance County, NC were outstanding and all I know is
that it may have come from Stark, planted around 1970. I would be satisfied
if that was the only variety I grew on my property. That is quite a tale
about your parent's tree. I would be interested in buying a couple of trees
from you in 2021. I will make a not to get in touch with you next year. I
know nothing about fruit tree propagation so would need saplings ready to
plant. Many thanks for your interesting reply.

Lawrence
Chapel Hill, NC


>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 4:19 PM Elizabeth Hilborn <ehilborn@mebtel.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Sad news.
> >
> > Lee Calhoun, apple explorer extraordinaire, has passed.
> >
> > I am not aware of an obituary, just this blog post:
> >
> >
> https://elizapples.com/2020/02/22/the-passing-of-c-lee-calhoun-southern-apple-hunter/comment-page-1/
>
>
> Thanks for letting us know, Elizabeth.
>
> I wonder where I could find an Old Fashioned Winesap apple tree to plant.
> According to Lee it is cedar apple rust resistant.
> The winesap is my favorite apple. Braxton sawmill in Snow Camp has/had a
> full size Winesap. They gave me apples from it one year and they lasted
> six months in my fridge. They are tart, sweet, winey-flavored and very
> crisp, almost hard. The flesh is grainy which would put many people off.
> Braxton's wife told me she bought the tree from Stark.
> That would probably make it a Stayman Starkspur Winesap and how it survived
> disease in their yard is beyond me. Their tree was huge but you could
> easily climb it to get at the apples. I took home what had fallen on the
> ground and they were in good shape. Recipe: chill some Winesaps then run
> them through a hand crank meat grinder with coarse screen. Chop up some
> Barhi dates (or Medjool as second choice but not as sweet or flavorful) and
> mix them with the Winesap sauce. Food for the gods.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Elizabeth
> >
> > --
> > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM
> > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC
> > beewellvet.com
> >
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>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Avant Geared
> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> <
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking
> >
> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
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--
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lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Avant Geared
walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking>
https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en
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