Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

Another possibility is that the rootstock has sent out a shoot from
below the graft union, and started flowering, making a 2 in 1 tree.
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Re: [nafex] nafex self fertile pears?

Can honeybees pollinate self-fertile pears? Tomatoes are seld-fertile but honeybees are unable for the.most part - bumblebees are required. Tomatoes, I understand, have 3 sets of genes and may occasionally revert to a different set.

5 miles for a honeybee is possible, but most gain is lost around 4 miles. They use up almost all they collect. While they instinctually do not over forage too close to home, (wasted trips to over-foraged flowers,) a mile is a preferred maximum, give or take, when possible.

BillSF9c
- near San Francisco, USDA 10a
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Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

In pears the flowers will produce both male and female parts that are viable - the mechanism is a type of self-incompatibility where the pollen germinates and grows about a third of the way down the style before the RNAs are degraded by enzymes in the style if they contain the same genetic allele as the pollen.  Sometimes this can be overcome by temperatures that allow pollen tube growth to occur more quickly and reach the ovules prior to degradation.  If you are consistently getting fruit set when none existed before then there really are only a couple of possible scenarios. 1. There is pollen from somewhere that you aren't aware of.  Honeybees will travel a long distance.  From my conversations with beekeepers here, I've been told that any pollen source within a radius of ~5 miles can allow pollination (obviously, closer is better).  2. Chimeral mutation (aka bud sport) on a limb somewhere that has allowed different alleles to be produced thereby providing compatible pollen on the same variety of tree.  This isn't completely unheard of but it is somewhat rare.
Michael Michael Dossett Mission, British Columbia www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla@yahoo.com

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:33 PM, Jim Fruth <jimfruth@charter.net> wrote:

My pear flowers seem to have both pistle and stamens.

-----Original Message-----
From: Henry
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 8:17 AM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

The purpose of a plant seems to be to reproduce itself.

I have heard that some plants "get frustrated" after years of not producing
seed and "fix" the problem.

We are not allowed to grow the "sterile" forms of the invasive buckthorn
here in Minnesota because they tend to revert to seed production when they
get "old."

Some isolated "female" dioecious plants will grow a branch of "male" flowers
so as to be able to make viable seeds.

I don't know what the pears might be doing to pull this off.

--Henry Fieldseth

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Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

Keep in mind that ornamental callery pears have become an invasive species recently, so they might be providing pollen to these edible pears.

Melissa
Decatur, GA
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Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

Had I suspected there might have been a controversy over this subject, I would have saved some of the seed from my tree to test. There are some in the mulch pile so I'll see how many grow next Spring, assuming they are not buried too deeply. Otherwise I'll have to perform the seed tests in 2018.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Haigh
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 4:47 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] self fertile pears?

"Apparently I should have mentioned...................The isolated pear
tree out in the countryside produces viable seed."

So so you believe the tree to be self fertile? That is something I've not
heard of but I certainly consider it possible. When isolated pear trees
have born fruit here, I never have even checked their seeds so I really am
only speaking from the literature.
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Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

My pear flowers seem to have both pistle and stamens.


-----Original Message-----
From: Henry
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 8:17 AM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

The purpose of a plant seems to be to reproduce itself.

I have heard that some plants "get frustrated" after years of not producing
seed and "fix" the problem.

We are not allowed to grow the "sterile" forms of the invasive buckthorn
here in Minnesota because they tend to revert to seed production when they
get "old."

Some isolated "female" dioecious plants will grow a branch of "male" flowers
so as to be able to make viable seeds.

I don't know what the pears might be doing to pull this off.

--Henry Fieldseth

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Re: [nafex] self fertile pears?

The purpose of a plant seems to be to reproduce itself.

I have heard that some plants "get frustrated" after years of not producing seed and "fix" the problem.

We are not allowed to grow the "sterile" forms of the invasive buckthorn here in Minnesota because they tend to revert to seed production when they get "old."

Some isolated "female" dioecious plants will grow a branch of "male" flowers so as to be able to make viable seeds.

I don't know what the pears might be doing to pull this off.

--Henry Fieldseth

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 10/12/16, Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [nafex] self fertile pears?
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2016, 4:47 AM

"Apparently I should have
mentioned...................The isolated pear
tree out in the countryside produces viable seed."

So so you believe the tree to be self fertile?  That is
something I've not
heard of but I certainly consider it possible.  When
isolated pear trees
have born fruit here, I never have even checked their seeds
so I really am
only speaking from the literature.
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[nafex] self fertile pears?

"Apparently I should have mentioned...................The isolated pear
tree out in the countryside produces viable seed."

So so you believe the tree to be self fertile? That is something I've not
heard of but I certainly consider it possible. When isolated pear trees
have born fruit here, I never have even checked their seeds so I really am
only speaking from the literature.
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[nafex] Protecting trees from late frost

Folks, I wanted to share a current experiment I'm working on to try to
protect fruit trees from late spring frosts. I'm in NM at 7000. We
almost never get any standard fruit because of the late frosts.

I've been trying to design and build tents that would go over the trees
on those nights when there could be a frost after the trees have
flowered. I've been using PVC piping and connectors to create a
lightweight framework over the trees (they are all small trees). I'm
working on a running power out to the fields where the trees are and
setting up a system of 30 watt outdoor halogen spotlights so that I can
put one in each tree tent. The tents will be covered by 6 mil plastic on
cold nights.

We have ferocious winds here in the spring. I'm experimenting with a
system of staking down the frames and using bungee cord to hold the
plastic in place.

It struck me recently that there are often only one or two nights of
frost that ruin the season's crops. On other nights the plastic would
not be put up on the frames and so wind would not be an issue.

To make this system work I need to stick with true dwarf trees.
Semi-dwarves would become too big to cover.

Another advantage of the frames is that it would allow me to cover
plants with bird netting when fruits are ripe and also to shade certain
plants that are not very tolerant of our high UV.

Anybody had any experience with what I'm trying to achieve?

Regards,

Jay

Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days

On 10/11/2016 8:41 PM, Jim Fruth wrote:
> Apparently I should have mentioned...................The isolated pear
> tree out in the countryside produces viable seed. My own pear tree
> that has suddenly started to bear fruit produces seeded fruits. No
> seedless fruits here.
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Alan Haigh
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 6:31 AM
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [nafex] pear pollination
>
> Pears are quite capable of parthenocarpy under the right spring
> conditions. If days in early spring are warm and sunny, many varieties
> will bear a full crop of seedless fruit. When S. CA had a commercial
> Bartlett industry some growers didn't even plant other varieties in their
> orchard according to Childers in his classic "Fruit Science".
>
> I suspect that this is the reason for confusion over what varieties are
> self-fruitful- it all depends.
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Re: [nafex] pear pollination

Apparently I should have mentioned...................The isolated pear tree
out in the countryside produces viable seed. My own pear tree that has
suddenly started to bear fruit produces seeded fruits. No seedless fruits
here.


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Haigh
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 6:31 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] pear pollination

Pears are quite capable of parthenocarpy under the right spring
conditions. If days in early spring are warm and sunny, many varieties
will bear a full crop of seedless fruit. When S. CA had a commercial
Bartlett industry some growers didn't even plant other varieties in their
orchard according to Childers in his classic "Fruit Science".

I suspect that this is the reason for confusion over what varieties are
self-fruitful- it all depends.
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[nafex] pear pollination

Pears are quite capable of parthenocarpy under the right spring
conditions. If days in early spring are warm and sunny, many varieties
will bear a full crop of seedless fruit. When S. CA had a commercial
Bartlett industry some growers didn't even plant other varieties in their
orchard according to Childers in his classic "Fruit Science".

I suspect that this is the reason for confusion over what varieties are
self-fruitful- it all depends.
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Re: [nafex] Intraspecific graft incompatibility among apple clones?

Thank you Ginda. I will give the folks at Cummins a call. They certainly
have experience using M111.

Betsy

On 10/10/2016 12:42 AM, Ginda Fisher wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2016, at 11:05 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I am attempting to propagate a very good apple variety I discovered at a SW Virginia homestead.
>>
>> I grafted it to 1 Bud9 dwarfing rootstock and it is healthy and vigorous. On the 3 M111 grafts I have, it is alive, but struggling. Small sample size, but I am struck by the difference.
>>
>> I found:
>> *b. Interclonal (between clones) / intraspecific*
>> Interclonal / intraspecific compatibility (/among apples/ /Ed./) is the rule rather than the exception.
>>
>> From: https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/hort494/mg/specific.grafting/compatibility.html
>>
>> Has anyone observed apple graft incompatibility?
>>
>> Is M111 known to be problematic?
>>
>> Betsy Hilborn
>> 7a NC
>>
> A couple of years ago I grafted a seedling tree with sentimental value to M7, G11, and a seedling crab apple. The season was wrong for grafting due to conditions beyond my control. Nonetheless, all of the grafts took except those to G11. Mine is an even smaller sample size, perhaps. And it might just be random chance. But the guy I spoke with at Cummins mentioned that M7 would be a good rootstock to use because it's very easy to graft to.
>
> Ginda
> __________________

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Re: [nafex] Pears becoming self fertile

I have an old pear tree that sets fruit despite there being no others for about six hundred feet; and it produced before I planted the ones several hundred feet away. -- the one at that distance is now down to one pear tree, and also sets some fruit; it is now well over twenty years old.


-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think
Fresh-market organic produce, small scale
On Oct 10, 2016, at 1:56 AM, Jim Fruth wrote:

> Despite the belief that pear trees are self sterile, I have observed evidence that they become self fertile after experiencing a period of producing no fruit/seed. As I mentioned in an earlier email (several years ago), I know a fellow who had a single pear producing tree with no neighbors for miles around - and, consequently, no pear trees.
> I had a single pear tree for twenty years that began blooming after twelve years but produced no fruit. I haven't been able to find another pear tree for many miles around. When my tree became twenty years old it produced a few fruits. The following year it produced nearly 2,000 fruits. Some might argue that there must have been a nearby pear tree that began blooming at the same time. That might be a plausible argument if a small quantity of fruits were produced, but 2,000 fruits? Yes it is hypothesis but the evidence suggests that pears can become self fertile after producing no fruits/seeds for some years.
> __________________
>







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Re: [nafex] Pears becoming self fertile

I have read that Bartletts in hot areas of California are self-fertile.
If so it would not be surprising that a warming climate in other areas
induces self-fertility.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario



On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 00:56:47 -0500, "Jim Fruth" <jimfruth@charter.net>
wrote:
> Despite the belief that pear trees are self sterile, I have observed
> evidence that they become self fertile after experiencing a period of
> producing no fruit/seed. As I mentioned in an earlier email (several
> years ago), I know a fellow who had a single pear producing tree with
> no neighbors for miles around - and, consequently, no pear trees.
> I had a single pear tree for twenty years that began blooming
> after twelve years but produced no fruit. I haven't been able to
> find
> another pear tree for many miles around. When my tree became twenty
> years old it produced a few fruits. The following year it produced
> nearly 2,000 fruits. Some might argue that there must have been a
> nearby pear tree that began blooming at the same time. That might be
> a plausible argument if a small quantity of fruits were produced, but
> 2,000 fruits? Yes it is hypothesis but the evidence suggests that
> pears can become self fertile after producing no fruits/seeds for
> some
> years.

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Re: [nafex] Pears becoming self fertile

Despite the belief that pear trees are self sterile, I have observed
evidence that they become self fertile after experiencing a period of
producing no fruit/seed. As I mentioned in an earlier email (several years
ago), I know a fellow who had a single pear producing tree with no neighbors
for miles around - and, consequently, no pear trees.
I had a single pear tree for twenty years that began blooming after
twelve years but produced no fruit. I haven't been able to find another
pear tree for many miles around. When my tree became twenty years old it
produced a few fruits. The following year it produced nearly 2,000 fruits.
Some might argue that there must have been a nearby pear tree that began
blooming at the same time. That might be a plausible argument if a small
quantity of fruits were produced, but 2,000 fruits? Yes it is hypothesis
but the evidence suggests that pears can become self fertile after producing
no fruits/seeds for some years.

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Re: [nafex] Intraspecific graft incompatibility among apple clones?

On Oct 9, 2016, at 11:05 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I am attempting to propagate a very good apple variety I discovered at a SW Virginia homestead.
>
> I grafted it to 1 Bud9 dwarfing rootstock and it is healthy and vigorous. On the 3 M111 grafts I have, it is alive, but struggling. Small sample size, but I am struck by the difference.
>
> I found:
> *b. Interclonal (between clones) / intraspecific*
> Interclonal / intraspecific compatibility (/among apples/ /Ed./) is the rule rather than the exception.
>
> From: https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/hort494/mg/specific.grafting/compatibility.html
>
> Has anyone observed apple graft incompatibility?
>
> Is M111 known to be problematic?
>
> Betsy Hilborn
> 7a NC
>

A couple of years ago I grafted a seedling tree with sentimental value to M7, G11, and a seedling crab apple. The season was wrong for grafting due to conditions beyond my control. Nonetheless, all of the grafts took except those to G11. Mine is an even smaller sample size, perhaps. And it might just be random chance. But the guy I spoke with at Cummins mentioned that M7 would be a good rootstock to use because it's very easy to graft to.

Ginda
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[nafex] Intraspecific graft incompatibility among apple clones?

Hi folks,

I am attempting to propagate a very good apple variety I discovered at a
SW Virginia homestead.

I grafted it to 1 Bud9 dwarfing rootstock and it is healthy and
vigorous. On the 3 M111 grafts I have, it is alive, but struggling.
Small sample size, but I am struck by the difference.

I found:
*b. Interclonal (between clones) / intraspecific*
Interclonal / intraspecific compatibility (/among apples/ /Ed./) is the
rule rather than the exception.

From:
https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/hort494/mg/specific.grafting/compatibility.html

Has anyone observed apple graft incompatibility?

Is M111 known to be problematic?

Betsy Hilborn
7a NC



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[nafex] New apples article

http://www.vox.com/culture/2016/10/6/13078268/honeycrisp-apple-explainer-clu
b-apples

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