Northamerican Alied Fruit Experimenters

Northamerican Alied Fruit Experimenters
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Friday, October 9, 2015

Re: [nafex] Geneva long persimmon

On 10/9/2015 9:53 AM, Devin Smith via nafex wrote:
> Jerry, your statement regarding the "blockage" having been "broken
> down" piqued my interest. Would you say more about that means? Are you
> just saying that Rosseyanka and Nikita's Gift are easily backcrossed
> even though the initial cross that produced them required some tricky
> business?
Hello Devon,

Yes, that is what I'm saying. This term a blockage that prevented enter
species hybridization of kaki and virginiana was picked up from James
Claypool. Mr. Claypool was a student and persimmon cooperator of JC
McDaniel from the University of Illinois. He also was personally
acquainted with Prof. Meader, all of whom attempted or were working with
people attempting to hybridize the 2 species. In my files I have letters
and articles written by some of these individuals and not one of them
claims to have achieved a interspecies hybrid. I just briefly went
through them nor did I found no reference to Geneva Long.

But yes, open pollinated seeds from my trees of Rosseyanka (Russian
Beauty TM) and the Nikitskaya Bordovaya (Nikita's Gft TM), trademarks of
one Green world nursery germinate very readily from open pollination in
my orchard. And they are not apomictic as all of the seedlings vary
greatly in leaf and fruit characteristics. I have one that was initially
grown in a pot by David Pierce and is now my 400-7 that produces very
small fruit and the bricks exceed 32. It produces 1 to 2 seed per fruit.
The last 2 winters our temperatures reached -15 Fahrenheit and there is
no winter damage. I have sent cuttings of this cultivar back to Ukraine
for back breeding to their best kaki males. That is a long answer with
unneeded information! But the point is yes, there progeny produce viable
seeds.

Jerry Lehman
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Re: [nafex] Geneva long persimmon


Since Prok was also a George Slate selection, it must be that he thought he had produced several inter specific hybrids. Jerry, your statement regarding the "blockage" having been "broken down" piqued my interest. Would you say more about that means? Are you just saying that Rosseyanka and Nikita's Gift are easily backcrossed even though the initial cross that produced them required some tricky business? Can anybody explain the nature of the incompatibility?

Re: [nafex] geneva long persimmon

On 10/8/2015 9:09 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long". I have read what is easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki.
Hello Mark,

I have Geneva Long here as well as Geneva red. It is my considered
opinion that Geneva Long is not a hybrid, unless it is an offspring of
Rosseyanka. That conical shape is somewhat common in kaki and is also
common in virginiana.

Prior to the importation of Rosseyanka in 1992 several breeders in the
US attempted hybridizing the 2 species, kaki and the 90 chromosome
virginiana. All attempts were unsuccessful. This included Luther Burbank
which is reported in the Luther Burbank encyclopedia. In it he states
all his attempts to hybridize the 2 species failed. The encyclopedia
gave no details as to which varieties or how many of the 2 were used in
his attempts. Rosseyanka to the best of my knowledge was the 1st
interspecies hybrid and was accomplished by Dr. Pasenkov (sp?) at the
Nikita Botanical Gardens in Crimea using embryo rescue and was the only
one that survived out of 22 rescue attempts, it was originally named
Rosseyanka 18. But since that time the blockage that prevented previous
attempts is broken down and all of her offspring can be back bred
relatively easily to both species. This along with closely looking at
the leaves leads me to strongly believe Geneva Long is not a hybrid,
rather pure virginiana. The same holds true for Prok which some believe
is a interspecies hybrid.

Jerry Lehman
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Re: [nafex] geneva long persimmon

Supposedly selected - maybe bred by - Dr. George Slate in NY.
I see repeated allegations that it may be a hybrid... but there's nothing
about the tree or fruit that would make me think that it is anything other
than D.virginiana.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 8:09 PM, mark wessel <growyourown@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long". I have read what is
> easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki.
>
> Mark
> Southern Ohio
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Thursday, October 8, 2015

[nafex] geneva long persimmon

Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long". I have read what is easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki.

Mark
Southern Ohio
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[nafex] fluffy in Charlotte, NC.

The fluffy one is going to be in Charlotte/Moorseville NC arriving Sunday noonish and departing Wed at 1:00pm in the event anyone needs me to sample some apples or something.

tfb



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Wednesday, October 7, 2015

Re: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 156, Issue 3

Betsy,
What we snacked on in Korea always had pits in them. The ones sliced up
with an exacto knife, they were for very thin garnish on cakes, so no seed
there.

And sam gye tang, the sweet-savory stew, had dried jujubes stewed, seeds
always in them. Chicken, sticky rice, garlic, ginseng, plus dried
jujubes. So you ate the soft fruit off the seeds and did not swallow
them. But you didn't swallow the chicken bones either!

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 10:11 PM, <nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing
> (Elizabeth Hilborn)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:11:50 -0400
> From: Elizabeth Hilborn <ehilborn@mebtel.net>
> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing
> Message-ID: <5615D0E6.2050608@mebtel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I do not enough fruit to market. The dried fruit tastes remarkably like
> dates (to my palate), but the fresh fruit is interesting. When some
> green is present, I taste a mild, sweet almost apple flavor. When
> mahogany brown, but while still plump, caramel notes with intense
> sweetness are present. The flavor varies by year somewhat, and although
> the fruit is billed as drought resistant, the texture is less crisp and
> juicy if the trees do not get enough water.
>
> My favorite uses for the fruit include fresh eating, and especially,
> stewing- no sugar needed to my taste. The fruit gets a delicate flavor
> with a pale pink juice and a light floral aroma.
>
> Richard, do you dry them whole? I process mine to remove the seeds and
> end up with small jujube chips, pretty labor intensive.
>
> Betsy Hilborn
> 7a NC
>
> On 10/7/2015 8:18 PM, Richard Moyer wrote:
> > We dry ours and they last forever. While living and shopping in Seoul,
> > Korea, we never saw them fresh, but always dried. Some market stands had
> > ONLY jujubes, of various sizes and shapes, priced accordingly. Hundreds
> of
> > lbs, all dried.
> >
> > I understand the Vietnamese and Indians prefer them in the crispy, less
> > ripe stage, as referred to in this articles. Indians staying with us
> have
> > picked out the less ripe ones, not eating the riper (shriveled ones).
> >
> > Long story short, we sell most of ours dried. They keep forever that
> way,
> > so we're not scrambling for buyers.
> >
> > Richard Moyer
> > SW VA, where all our jujubes survived -15F last winter.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:39 PM, <nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to
> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> nafex-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat
> >> little-known fruit (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA))
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:23 +0000
> >> From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" <sam.brungardt@state.mn.us>
> >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> >> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Subject: [nafex] Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat
> >> little-known fruit
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <
> >>
> 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BB68E@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit <
> >>
> https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYBioTMzA4OTY5OTU5MjkyNjc5NzE3MDIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNE9aq2mUr1k9MJyUUz4_k5SIgGmwg
> >> AgriLife Today
> >> COLLEGE STATION - Several hands raised when asked at the annual Texas
> >> Fruit Conference who had acreage of jujube. "What were you thinking?
> >>
> >> Story URL:
> >>
> http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
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> End of nafex Digest, Vol 156, Issue 3
> *************************************
>
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