Re: [nafex] Example of stonefruits nut trees thriving in high-water, acidic soi

Hi Alan,

Super insightful. The pH of the property I'm looking into is pH 5.5 on the
top down to 5.0 in the subsoil. The soil of the other property is 5.0 and
sometimes just under 5.0. I was very interested to know that emphasis on
pH could be about getting calcium into the fruit for storage; I now
remember that with respect to persimmon cultivation. This is a good point
in favor of growing on soils which are circum-neutral; something that I
need to keep in mind. I was interested also to know that there are areas
where even a permanent water table of 18" works.

That's the key -- as you say: having a failry constant layer of
well-aerated soil. This, to my thinking, should be the reason that my
friend is able to grow stone fruits and Asian pears on soil with a water
table that is just 12" under the surface during the late winter months; his
soil is sandy loam that is very loose. The soil of the property I'm
describing is very similarly structured -- and the water table is a bit
lower.

I a definitely going through a great deal of agony-of-indecision. I was
greatly disappointed this weekend when my realtor contacted me regarding a
listing that he said was expired - and therefore available. I researched
it all weekend. A great amount of space, amazing soils (deep,
well-drained, circum-neutral), nice wetlands, nice uplands, nice rocky
outcroppings, nice deep fields without a high water table.. literally
exactly what I was hoping for). He made a mistake -- it was under
contract, as I told him it was.. I knew it was, but thought.. maybe it fell
through. The only reason that I'm not holding out until something as
impressive like that one shows up is because it was the only one that fit
exactly what I was looking for in the past year. So, statistically, maybe
another one like it one come up for year -- and because the property with
acidic soil and a seasonally high water table has some exceptional
characteristics in terms of natural beauty and location that has me willing
to consider it.. so long as I can grow nearly all that I intend to, which
-- given that the soils are gravely, sandy, loamy and the issue of the
seasonally high water table isn't that bad, and the soil is not more acidic
than 5.0 -- I think that I might as well further research it and begin
doing official soil samples.

Thank you,
Steve

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:

> These terms, extreme acidic soil are not very specific. How about an
> actual number? I've seen very productive apple trees with healthy foliage
> as low as 5.2 pH. All the Cornell emphasis on a pH about 7 is an attempt
> to get calcium into apples for storage, although I'm not sure if there is
> research backing this up- I know varieties can produce calcium deficient
> apples at that pH. Other sources suggest a pH of between 5.5 and 6.5, so
> obviously apples are fairly adaptable.
>
> According to Childers in his classic book "Fruit Science" there are some
> very productive orchards in the south bordering the Mississippi river where
> there is something like a permanent 18" water table. The key is for it to
> contain a fairly constant layer of well aerated soil.
>
> I once made a deal with a commercial apple grower in upstate NY of planting
> nursery trees in between trees in new rows of replants. The soil was a
> pretty heavy clay and in early spring every year had water pooled up on the
> surface well into first growth. It was a very productive orchard with
> impressive yields by any standard. Bruce Sallinger was the owner who also
> owns an orchard in Putnam County, NY (Sallinger's). You can contact him if
> you have any questions about that. It was an orchard he purchased after
> going through the same agony of indecision you are. It was formerly a
> dairy farm.
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