Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc

Thanks Mark. Looking forward to seeing that dichotomous key.

I just recently ordered supposed morus nigra seed from Trade Winds
Fruit. Maybe it is true morus nigra or maybe it isn't; time will tell.
Where can one purchase true/verified morus nigra seed?

-Nathan

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:06 PM, mark wessel <growyourown@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Greetings All
>
> What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis identified
> plants only adding to the confusion.
> Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra is
> not hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity but it
> also will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive conversations with
> A.J. Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the subject. He is the first
> along with Michael at Edible Landscaping to import M. nigra into this
> country.
> I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber. Not
> that this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good start. The
> species have very distinct characteristics that differentiate themselves.
> There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First, a
> major seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M alba. Many
> nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id plants.
> Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know
> exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn't
> possess any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has survived
> 12 below F in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is offering
> one that fits this bill. I now have it from three different sources and all
> are the same.
> Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns <r.fred.bruns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Lee -
> >
> > I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant, still
> less
> > than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of my
> M.
> > Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing
> >
> > With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving the
> cold
> > in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected.
> The
> > problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the
> spring
> > and then get clobbered by late frosts.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC <filtertitle@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine in
> >> ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F.
> >> M. nigra -- for certain
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE
> smartphone--------
> >> Original message --------From: Lee Reich <leeareich@gmail.com> Date:
> >> 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio -
> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc
> >> Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated,
> >> although we don't know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse.
> >> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel
> the
> >> plant?
> >>
> >> Lee Reich, PhD
> >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog <
> >> http://www.leereich.com/blog>
> >> http://leereich.com/ <http://leereich.com/>
> >>
> >> Books by Lee Reich:
> >> A Northeast Gardener's Year
> >> The Pruning Book
> >> Weedless Gardening
> >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden
> >> Landscaping with Fruit
> >> Grow Fruit Naturally
> >>
> >>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson <
> nathan.b.c.wilson@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm
> >> looking
> >>> for.
> >>>
> >>> Nathan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns <r.fred.bruns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool
> >>>> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as
> >> low
> >>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago,
> >>>> which implies that your option D would work.
> >>>>
> >>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night
> >>> when
> >>>> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my
> >>> figs
> >>>> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are
> iffy.
> >>> In
> >>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement.
> >>>>
> >>>> Good luck!
> >>>>
> >>>> Fred
> >>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson <
> >>> nathan.b.c.wilson@gmail.com
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra?
> >>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year.
> >>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours.
> >>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy?
> >>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the
> plant
> >>> will
> >>>>> survive?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone
> >> 5/6
> >>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm weighing my options:
> >>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm
> >> not
> >>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this.
> >>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I
> think
> >> it
> >>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the
> >> plants,
> >>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet.
> >>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy
> chilling
> >>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12
> >>> deg C
> >>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can
> bring
> >>>>> them back outside.
> >>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door
> >>>>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a
> point.
> >>> The
> >>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it
> could
> >>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making
> them
> >>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee
> >> Reich).
> >>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Nathan
> >>>>> __________________
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