Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc

Thanks Idell.

Will ask around for verified morus nigra scions next winter/spring. They
would likely need to come from Canada due to shipping limitation. I imagine
my best bet would be British Columbia, where allegedly morus nigra
overwinters in the ground.
On Mar 29, 2016 11:08 AM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Black mulberries can be grafted onto white mulberries. Probably someone
> has scions that could be mailed. Mine has already broken dormancy so could
> not be mailed by me. My Morus nigra has black tipped buds and my Morus alba
> has white tipped buds .
>
> Perhaps you can buy a tree and keep it small in a large pot.
>
> Idell Weydemeyer Zone 9a El Sobrante, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nathan
> Wilson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:27 AM
> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc
>
> Thanks Mark. Looking forward to seeing that dichotomous key.
>
> I just recently ordered supposed morus nigra seed from Trade Winds Fruit.
> Maybe it is true morus nigra or maybe it isn't; time will tell.
> Where can one purchase true/verified morus nigra seed?
>
> -Nathan
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:06 PM, mark wessel <growyourown@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Greetings All
> >
> > What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis
> > identified plants only adding to the confusion.
> > Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra
> > is not hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity
> > but it also will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive
> > conversations with A.J. Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the
> > subject. He is the first along with Michael at Edible Landscaping to
> > import M. nigra into this country.
> > I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber.
> > Not that this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good
> > start. The species have very distinct characteristics that differentiate
> themselves.
> > There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First,
> > a major seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M
> > alba. Many nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id
> plants.
> > Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know
> > exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn t
> > possess any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has
> > survived
> > 12 below F in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is
> > offering one that fits this bill. I now have it from three different
> > sources and all are the same.
> > Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns <r.fred.bruns@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Lee -
> > >
> > > I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant,
> > > still
> > less
> > > than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of
> > > my
> > M.
> > > Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing
> > >
> > > With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving
> > > the
> > cold
> > > in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected.
> > The
> > > problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the
> > spring
> > > and then get clobbered by late frosts.
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC <filtertitle@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine
> > >> in ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F.
> > >> M. nigra -- for certain
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S 6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE
> > smartphone--------
> > >> Original message --------From: Lee Reich <leeareich@gmail.com> Date:
> > >> 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio -
> > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Fred, I
> > >> am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated,
> > >> although we don t know just how cold it got in the unheated
> greenhouse.
> > >> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries
> > >> mislabel
> > the
> > >> plant?
> > >>
> > >> Lee Reich, PhD
> > >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog <
> > >> http://www.leereich.com/blog> http://leereich.com/
> > >> <http://leereich.com/>
> > >>
> > >> Books by Lee Reich:
> > >> A Northeast Gardener's Year
> > >> The Pruning Book
> > >> Weedless Gardening
> > >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden
> > >> Landscaping with Fruit
> > >> Grow Fruit Naturally
> > >>
> > >>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson <
> > nathan.b.c.wilson@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm
> > >> looking
> > >>> for.
> > >>>
> > >>> Nathan
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns <r.fred.bruns@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a
> > >>>> cool greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but
> > >>>> got down as
> > >> low
> > >>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month
> > >>>> ago, which implies that your option D would work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a
> > >>>> night
> > >>> when
> > >>>> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived,
> > >>>> but my
> > >>> figs
> > >>>> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are
> > iffy.
> > >>> In
> > >>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Good luck!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fred
> > >>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson <
> > >>> nathan.b.c.wilson@gmail.com
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi everyone,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra?
> > >>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year.
> > >>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours.
> > >>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy?
> > >>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the
> > plant
> > >>> will
> > >>>>> survive?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in
> > >>>>> zone
> > >> 5/6
> > >>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'm weighing my options:
> > >>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with
> > >>>>> figs. I'm
> > >> not
> > >>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this.
> > >>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I
> > think
> > >> it
> > >>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill
> > >>>>> the
> > >> plants,
> > >>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet.
> > >>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy
> > chilling
> > >>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is
> > >>>>> presently 12
> > >>> deg C
> > >>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I
> > >>>>> can
> > bring
> > >>>>> them back outside.
> > >>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar
> > >>>>> door stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it
> > >>>>> to a
> > point.
> > >>> The
> > >>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think
> > >>>>> it
> > could
> > >>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by
> > >>>>> making
> > them
> > >>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by
> > >>>>> Lee
> > >> Reich).
> > >>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Nathan
> > >>>>> __________________
> > >>>>> nafex mailing list
> > >>>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > >>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> __________________
> > >>>> nafex mailing list
> > >>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> > >>>>
> > >>> __________________
> > >>> nafex mailing list
> > >>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> > >>
> > >> __________________
> > >> nafex mailing list
> > >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
> > >> config|list info:
> > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> > >> __________________
> > >> nafex mailing list
> > >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
> > >> config|list info:
> > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> > >>
> > > __________________
> > > nafex mailing list
> > > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
> > > config|list info:
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> > __________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
> > config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
> config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
__________________
nafex mailing list
nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex