Re: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent?

Pawpaws also spread through root suckers but are genetically identical.
But in order to get fruit you will need two trees with distinct and
different genes. Two seeds are genetically different enough to fertilize.

Here is some FAQ found at the Kentucky State Pawpaw website.
https://www.kysu.edu/academics/college-acs/school-of-ace/pawpaw/pawpaw-faq-and-contact-information.php/#q03


On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:31 PM Elizabeth Hilborn <ehilborn@mebtel.net>
wrote:

> Hi Lucky,
>
> Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for
> this?
>
> I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically
> opposed opinions on this around the 'net.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote:
> > Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are
> > quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety.
>
>
> --
> Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM
> Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC
> beewellvet.com
>
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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent?

Other than these handful of seedlings grown from seed I bought from
Tollgate Nursery (Corwin Davis' daughter and son-in-law) , years ago, I've
not really kept any to fruiting... have given away many seedlings and
numerous quarts of seed from grafted trees - but at this juncture, I can't
tell you what the parent variety is for any of these seedlings, nor which
still have many or any of their multiple grafts still in existence. Other
than one graft of Mango on a wild pawpaw growing in the fenceline well away
from the house, I can't identify any of my pawpaw grafts anymore.

So... not my own personal experience, but some of the earliest literature I
encountered from the resurgence of interest and research into pawpaws, back
at least into the early 1990s - by folks like Desmond Layne, Corwin Davis,
etc., suggested that a high percentage of seedlings produced fruit similar
to, if not comparable to, that of the parent variety. John Gordon offered,
in addition to named variety graftlings and scionwood, several
named-parentage seedling pawpaw selections, which he usually denoted as SAA
(Saved As 'A')... like SAA Zimmerman, etc., which was a seedling of
Zimmerman that produced fruit all but indistinguishable from the parent
tree.

Lucky

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:31 PM Elizabeth Hilborn <ehilborn@mebtel.net>
wrote:

> Hi Lucky,
>
> Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for
> this?
>
> I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically
> opposed opinions on this around the 'net.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote:
> > Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are
> > quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety.
>
>
> --
> Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM
> Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC
> beewellvet.com
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent?

Hi Lucky,

Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for
this?

I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically
opposed opinions on this around the 'net.

Elizabeth

On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote:
> Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are
> quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety.


--
Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM
Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC
beewellvet.com

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Re: [nafex] Fruit for part shade

I have had luck with the same plants in nearly full shade in SW Montana.

Also, I have been amazed that the yellow flowering current (not sure if it's
Ribes oderatum or Ribes aureum, and apparently there is some debate about
these) that were planted bare root have turned into lovely small shrubs with
tasty fruit with < 1 hr of dappled light.

Abigail


-----Original Message-----
From: nafex <nafex-bounces+abreuer=3rivers.net@lists.ibiblio.org> On Behalf
Of Sam Brungardt
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:35 PM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] Fruit for part shade

I live in St. Paul and have grown some small fruits that do well in areas
near trees as long as they get a few hours of sunlight a day. The most
shade-tolerant are gooseberries and red and black currants. They should
bear well for you, but would do best if the weeds are kept down for at least
a couple of feet around each plant. They will also need some irrigation
should we have have a dry spell.
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Re: [nafex] How does the nursery dig these long rooted trees?

Great info, I will go ahead and dig tomorrow.

Thanks

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 9:33 AM, Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mark, we use a cultivating (potato) fork and a King of Spades long handled
> and bladed spade. We also plant trees over a sheet of plastic to encourage
> shallow rooting but haven't always done that. It can take up to 30 minutes
> to dig up a single tree and we are digging today and will be able to until
> the ground freezes. I believe the compost and mulch dressing reduces the
> chance of winter injury. Cycles of freeze and thaw could otherwise be a
> problem.
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[nafex] How does the nursery dig these long rooted trees?

Mark, we use a cultivating (potato) fork and a King of Spades long handled
and bladed spade. We also plant trees over a sheet of plastic to encourage
shallow rooting but haven't always done that. It can take up to 30 minutes
to dig up a single tree and we are digging today and will be able to until
the ground freezes. I believe the compost and mulch dressing reduces the
chance of winter injury. Cycles of freeze and thaw could otherwise be a
problem.
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Re: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9

Alan

How does the nursery dig these long rooted trees? Do they use an air knife?

I have several trees that were budded three years ago and need to move them out of the nursery and into the orchard. Would love to get this done soon. Should I wait until late winter or do think it is safe to do now? Southern Ohio zone 6.


Mark

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:43 AM, Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On digging trenches for individual roots for bare root transplant:
>
> I have a nursery that produces bearing age, 2.5" diam. well branched 12'
> tall fruit trees that I grow and transplant with over half of my inventory
> being bare root. The diameter of the root systems can sometimes be as much
> as 8'- with peaches that means a very rigid 8'. Some roots may extend 6'
> from the trunk.
>
> Digging trenches for such roots is standard procedure for us and has been
> for years. Often we simply lift the sod with a little soil and pull the
> roots underneath creating a nice shallow root system that over the years
> has served trees very well. Sometimes peach trees act as though they
> weren't even transplanted and can hold good crops the first season after
> transplant. Same with J. plums, but other species will tend to need a
> season to recover.
>
> After planting shallow we dress trees with a 6 cu' ft wheelbarrow of
> compost covered with same of shredded wood mulch. Forest soil tends to be
> a parfait and not homogenous like prairie soil and I find trees tend to
> thrive in an approximation of that.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 8:21 AM <nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
>
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>> 1. This list still works, as before. (Rosholdt)
>> 2. Re: Leaves in hole before fruit tree (Ginda Fisher)
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>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:33:31 -0500
>> From: Rosholdt <rosholdt@erols.com>
>> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: [nafex] This list still works, as before.
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>> Subject:
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>> Megan Lynch <spidra@gmail.com>
>> Date:
>> 11/21/2020, 12:51 AM
>>
>> To:
>> mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>
>>
>> The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding
>> up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever
>> be.
>>
>> Megan
>>
>> On 11/21/2020 12:52 AM, nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>>> This list still works, as before.
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>> I AGREE!? With all the FB censorship, this is great!
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>> ------------------------------
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>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:19:00 -0500
>> From: Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us>
>> To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree
>> Message-ID: <3E439655-C2D2-4AB0-837A-3A70BC48912E@ginda.us>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> I?m curious what others think of what I?ve been doing recently. I have
>> reasonably nice soil, but it?s full of rock of all different sizes, some
>> large. So digging holes is very hard work. And I understand that it?s
>> important not to bend the roots of a young plant back on itself. So I?ve
>> been digging a small hole for the ?core" of the plant, and spreading out
>> the roots on the top of the soil, and then digging a small trench for each
>> root, often with a trowel. For instance, I planted some apple rootstock
>> that was basically a stick with half a dozen long thread-like roots. So I
>> dug a star, and spread out each root thread in a different direction.
>>
>> It?s a lot less digging. If I hit a large rock, I can guide the root
>> around it. I?ve planted tree peonies, apples, and hazelnuts this way.
>>
>> Nothing that I?ve planted that way has seemed to die of it, yet. (Plants
>> that died mostly did so because a deer ate the whole plant. A tree peonies
>> developed some fungal disease.) But I feel a little guilty when I do this.
>>
>> Wishing you all a safe Thanksgiving,
>> Ginda Fisher
>> eastern MA, zone 6
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn <ehilborn@mebtel.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I echo Lee's advice. I never amend holes now, I plant in soil as it lays
>> and top dress.
>>>
>>> My first experience growing fruit trees I amended all (very big) holes.
>> They lasted about 12 years, got quite large, but when they started dying, a
>> post mortem revealed roots did not penetrate beyond the original hole
>> diameter.
>>>
>>> On 11/23/2020 6:13 AM, Lee Reich wrote:
>>>> And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a
>> ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>> ------------------------------
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>> End of nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9
>> *************************************
>>
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