Re: [nafex] Fruit trees -- high water table

On 1/6/2017 1:51 PM, sc wrote:
> Hi, Ive been working at searching for a property. One I will check out next features a soil type which is categorized under the "Rockaway Series".
> Rocky, sandy, deep, supposedly well-dained soul, but there is a 14" clay fragipan a couple of feet down.
> A seasonally high water table is of special concern; water table during is just 18" - 30" under the soil surface during these times.
> Also, the soil is very acidic (pH of 5).
> My focus is on growing native persimmon, paw paw, native plums (P. americana, P. munsiniana, P. angustifolia) and apples.
> However, I would also like to grow Cornelian-cherry, sour cherry and apricot.
> In dealing with the issue of a high water table, the thought I had was to clear 9 acres of upland woods (necessary for the creating space for the projected orchard) and then dump all of the non valuable lumber and rock on 3 acres of the cleared orchard surface then overtop with a few inches of top soil/sand.
> On this 3 acres, i could plant apricot, stone fruits, etc.
> I think persimmon, hickory, chestnut, paw paw would do ok with a seasonally high water table just 2' below the surface?
> It might not be the right site. Then there's the issue of pH. I'd Would something like this work?
Hi Steve,

That 14 inches of clay hardpan a couple of feet down doesn't scare me
and I like the sound of that much better than the previous one you asked
about. The pH of 5 I don't believe is that detrimental and can be
partially overcome with agriculture lime, I would think. Also if you
have a few trees compost around them tends to neutralize pH, if it's
acidic it raises the pH and if it's high it lowers pH. Or at least so
I've read and been told. But when I was in Ukraine I saw them
successfully growing pawpaws in the soil with pH 9 by having about 6
inches of mulch about 4 foot around each tree.

If these 3 acres are near you and the price is right I believe you
should give a strong consideration.

Jerry
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Re: [nafex] Fruit trees -- high water table

I don't know whether your proposal would eventually provide suitable soil for the trees in question, even after the time needed for all that "non-valuable" lumber to break down. But I do have a couple of other comments:

Do you have the option of continuing your search until you find a place that meets whatever your other criteria are, and that doesn't need major work done before you can plant? If so, I'd think that would make more sense.

Whatever you buy: make sure to check out the available water supply, both for quality and quantity.


-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think
Fresh-market organic produce, small scale



On Jan 6, 2017, at 1:51 PM, sc wrote:

> Hi, Ive been working at searching for a property. One I will check out next features a soil type which is categorized under the "Rockaway Series".
> Rocky, sandy, deep, supposedly well-dained soul, but there is a 14" clay fragipan a couple of feet down.
> A seasonally high water table is of special concern; water table during is just 18" - 30" under the soil surface during these times.
> Also, the soil is very acidic (pH of 5).
> My focus is on growing native persimmon, paw paw, native plums (P. americana, P. munsiniana, P. angustifolia) and apples.
> However, I would also like to grow Cornelian-cherry, sour cherry and apricot.
> In dealing with the issue of a high water table, the thought I had was to clear 9 acres of upland woods (necessary for the creating space for the projected orchard) and then dump all of the non valuable lumber and rock on 3 acres of the cleared orchard surface then overtop with a few inches of top soil/sand.
> On this 3 acres, i could plant apricot, stone fruits, etc.
> I think persimmon, hickory, chestnut, paw paw would do ok with a seasonally high water table just 2' below the surface?
> It might not be the right site. Then there's the issue of pH. I'd Would something like this work?
>
> Thank you,Steve NJ
>
>






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[nafex] Fruit trees -- high water table

Hi, Ive been working at searching for a property.  One I will check out next features a soil type which is categorized under the "Rockaway Series".  
Rocky, sandy, deep, supposedly well-dained soul, but there is a 14" clay fragipan a couple of feet down.
A seasonally high water table is of special concern; water table during is just 18" - 30" under the soil surface during these times.
Also, the soil is very acidic (pH of 5).
My focus is on growing native persimmon, paw paw, native plums (P. americana, P. munsiniana, P. angustifolia) and apples. 
 However, I would also like to grow Cornelian-cherry, sour cherry and apricot.  
In dealing with the issue of a high water table, the thought I had was to clear 9 acres of upland woods (necessary for the creating space for the projected orchard) and then dump all of the non valuable lumber and rock on 3 acres of the cleared orchard surface then overtop with a few inches of top soil/sand. 
On this 3 acres, i could plant apricot, stone fruits, etc.  
I think persimmon, hickory, chestnut, paw paw would do ok with a seasonally high water table just 2' below the surface?
It might not be the right site.  Then there's the issue of pH.  I'd  Would something like this work?  

Thank you,Steve NJ

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Re: [nafex] In-ground Containerized Figs

I'll have to move mine this spring - shoved them up against the house for
winter about 3 years ago, blocked 'em in with bales of straw and mulched
with wood chips. Never got around to moving them, come spring, and there
they've sat, ever since. Absolutely firmly rooted into the ground there -
and the bales of straw and wood chips are long gone - but they grew 10+ ft
this summer, set lots of fruit, and managed to ripen a goodly portion of it.

Previously, I'd been sticking them in the crawlspace underneath our sunroom
- but with in-floor radiant heat (above the crawlspace), I think it was too
warm under there - they often broke dormancy and pushed pale, etiolated
shoots.

I wonder about 'pot-in-pot' planting for those of us in climes where they
tend to freeze back... but as rapidly as figs root out , I wonder if they'd
root out through the in-ground outer pot, and be extremely tough to
extricate for winter

Lucky

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Chrisbacher
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2017 7:42 AM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] In-ground Containerized Figs

This thread has taken an interesting turn (for me!).

Has anyone tried/compared various containers and their relative suitability
and EASE for annual planting of larger "in-ground containerized"
temperature-sensitive plants?

My figs remain in fairly large pots above ground all year (overwintered in
an attached garage after hardening off). But keeping them in pots is
challenging due to their significant moisture requirements; I've considered
a drip system but wasn't ready to make the commitment. Does "planting"
them in a pot or other container/bag solve the watering issue? Given figs'
prolific rooting, have you seen improved fruiting/harvest/growth/etc. using
this method? How difficult is it to dig them back up in the fall? Any
ideas for making this easier (e.g. a thin layer of sand or perlite fill
around the pot?).

I'd love to hear more about others' experience and experiments with this
"in-ground containerized" approach.

-Pete
Back in Kennett Square PA 6b
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[nafex] fig cuttings

Unless I'm doing an exchange with someone that has something I want I don't
sent out cuttings unless I receive a stamped, self-addressed envelope. My
small business compresses time for me.

alandhaigh@gmail.com
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[nafex] name of fig variety

Nope, it is just one of the NYC figs brought here from Italy. I got it
from a cutting of a neighbor who got it from someone who got it from
someone....
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Re: [nafex] Early figs

I did notice that my Celeste took years (at least 4) to start bearing
much fruit regularly. Now it is a very reliable cropper in most weather
(wet or dry) but it is not early ripening.

On 1/5/2017 11:39 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote:
> I had a potted Celeste when I lived in Royersford PA zone 6b that I gave a
> chance to bear over several seasons. I may have gotten *some* fruit, but if
> so (and I don't remember getting any) not much. If I recall correctly, it
> was fruiting modestly, but not maturing its fruit. Around the end of season
> 3 it was "accidentally" not brought in over winter which freed up its pot
> for something new.
>
> -Pete
> Kennett Square PA 6b
>
>
> Pete Chrisbacher
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Lee Reich <leeareich@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've grown Danny's Delight fig, which was also allegedly cold hardy. Here
>> in Zone 5, it was cold hardy — the roots, that is, just like many other
>> figs. The tops died back, then grew about 10 feet high by the end of the
>> season, but never ripened a fruit.
>>
>> Celeste, in my greenhouse or in a pot, never sets hardly any fruit for me.
>>
>> Lee Reich, PhD
>> Come visit my farmden at
>> http://www.leereich.com/blog <http://www.leereich.com/blog>
>> http://leereich.com <http://leereich.com/>
>>
>> Books by Lee Reich:
>> A Northeast Gardener's Year
>> The Pruning Book
>> Weedless Gardening
>> Uncommon Fruits for every Garden
>> Landscaping with Fruit
>> Grow Fruit Naturally
>>

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