Richard: Great answer! Thanks for the response. Jay: You should
collect these and submit them to Pomona if you are a North American
Fruit Explorers member.
Barbara Rosholdt
Z7a central VA
----------------------------------
Jay,
Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.
We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
But our winters are the wettest time of year.
As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
the summer.
For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
them early before the first hard freeze.
So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
either, compared to some other fruits we grow.
In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
dried.
I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
to fruit in areas similar to your climate.
Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.
Richard Moyer
Russell County, SW VA
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Thursday, December 29, 2016
[nafex] Cold Hardiness of cultivars
Tree survival in cold temps is strongly related to its level of hardening
off when extreme events occur. The tree shuttles water from cells in
response to gradually colder days in the fall, but fluctuating temps can
reverse this process. Too much water in the cells and they burst. I've
seen even spring events where temps were in the double digits F. kill trees
that in a fully hardened state can take -25 F.
The high desert is not a moderate climate, although I've seen 100 year old
apricots between Taos and Santa Fe near the Rio Grande. River valleys seem
to create micro-climates conducive to tree survival.
There are also soil issues involved- when there is little snow cover roots
seem more vulnerable to cold in shallow or poorly drained soils.
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off when extreme events occur. The tree shuttles water from cells in
response to gradually colder days in the fall, but fluctuating temps can
reverse this process. Too much water in the cells and they burst. I've
seen even spring events where temps were in the double digits F. kill trees
that in a fully hardened state can take -25 F.
The high desert is not a moderate climate, although I've seen 100 year old
apricots between Taos and Santa Fe near the Rio Grande. River valleys seem
to create micro-climates conducive to tree survival.
There are also soil issues involved- when there is little snow cover roots
seem more vulnerable to cold in shallow or poorly drained soils.
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Wednesday, December 28, 2016
[nafex] Jujube
The recommendation I received was to plant trees known to fruit in a
climate similar to your own, particularly during times of pollen shedding.
There are many jujube cultivars from various parts of the far east, which
have had many long years to adapt to microclimates within their native
range.
The majority of my trees are from the Norris Dam planting several counties
west of me, where about 50 cultivars were planted about 70 years ago, and I
have rooted suckers from the survivors with good quality fruit.
We get thousands of fruit per tree per year from the above. Compared to
dozens per tree from Li or Lang, in a good year for them. All planted in
the same row. I can't explain why, other than to repeat what I've heard
(and now observed), that certain jujubes fruit MUCH better in some places
than others.
If someone is aware of certain cultivars which fruit heavily and regularly
in a wide variety of settings throughout the US, including arid and humid,
please chime in.
Thanks,
Richard
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climate similar to your own, particularly during times of pollen shedding.
There are many jujube cultivars from various parts of the far east, which
have had many long years to adapt to microclimates within their native
range.
The majority of my trees are from the Norris Dam planting several counties
west of me, where about 50 cultivars were planted about 70 years ago, and I
have rooted suckers from the survivors with good quality fruit.
We get thousands of fruit per tree per year from the above. Compared to
dozens per tree from Li or Lang, in a good year for them. All planted in
the same row. I can't explain why, other than to repeat what I've heard
(and now observed), that certain jujubes fruit MUCH better in some places
than others.
If someone is aware of certain cultivars which fruit heavily and regularly
in a wide variety of settings throughout the US, including arid and humid,
please chime in.
Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [nafex] Jujube
Thanks, Richard.
For the record is it low or high humidity that prevents them from
setting fruit? We have very low humidity.
Regards,
Jay
Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
On 12/28/2016 9:37 PM, Richard Moyer wrote:
> Jay,
> Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
> injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
> Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.
>
> We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
> But our winters are the wettest time of year.
>
> As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
> 3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
> many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
> the summer.
>
> For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
> And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
> them early before the first hard freeze.
>
> So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
> from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
> either, compared to some other fruits we grow.
>
> In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
> brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
> you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
> want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
> dried.
>
> I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
> factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
> fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
> year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
> to fruit in areas similar to your climate.
>
> Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.
>
> Richard Moyer
> Russell County, SW VA
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
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For the record is it low or high humidity that prevents them from
setting fruit? We have very low humidity.
Regards,
Jay
Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
On 12/28/2016 9:37 PM, Richard Moyer wrote:
> Jay,
> Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
> injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
> Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.
>
> We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
> But our winters are the wettest time of year.
>
> As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
> 3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
> many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
> the summer.
>
> For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
> And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
> them early before the first hard freeze.
>
> So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
> from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
> either, compared to some other fruits we grow.
>
> In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
> brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
> you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
> want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
> dried.
>
> I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
> factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
> fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
> year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
> to fruit in areas similar to your climate.
>
> Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.
>
> Richard Moyer
> Russell County, SW VA
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
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[nafex] Jujube
Jay,
Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.
We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
But our winters are the wettest time of year.
As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
the summer.
For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
them early before the first hard freeze.
So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
either, compared to some other fruits we grow.
In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
dried.
I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
to fruit in areas similar to your climate.
Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.
Richard Moyer
Russell County, SW VA
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Here in the S. Appalachians, our jujubes survive Zone 5 freezes without top
injury. Our trees are Li, Lang, and several from Norris Dam near
Knoxville. We always get fruit, once the trees finally started bearing.
We've had -14 F, also -17-19 F without winter injury to twigs or limbs.
But our winters are the wettest time of year.
As for ripening, our frost free season can be as little at 3rd week May to
3rd week Sept between killing frosts. We always get fruit. We don't have
many days in the 90s, and temps at night are in the low-mid 60s for much of
the summer.
For context, figs don't normally ripen until late August, into September.
And A. arguta kiwi don't have enough heat to ripen some years, so we pick
them early before the first hard freeze.
So in our experience, jujubes have never had winter injury, nor suffered
from late spring freezes. And they don't need lots of heat to ripen
either, compared to some other fruits we grow.
In many part of the world, jujubes are picked and eaten before they turn
brown, also picked early and dried. So if you get an early freeze on year,
you can pick them earlier than normal and refrigerate them if you don't
want to dry them all. They keep very well, whether fresh and chilled, or
dried.
I read some years ago that humidity during pollen shedding is a major
factor in good fruit set. We have a tree that blooms profusely but sets no
fruit, even though blooming near several other types that do fruit each
year. So if trying some out, I would plant several, preferably some known
to fruit in areas similar to your climate.
Roger Meyer is a source in Calif, with a climate perhaps similar to yours.
Richard Moyer
Russell County, SW VA
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Re: [nafex] Jujube
Here is the (very quick) reply from Dr. Shengrui Yao:
Hi Jay,
Winter hardiness is one thing and the other issue is the frost free days-length of growing season. If you season is too short, most cultivars could not be fully mature.
To me, the frost free days is more critical than winter low temperature in your area. But you can get 1-2 cultivars and try it.
Happy Holidays!
Shengrui
Regards,
Jay
Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>
> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>
> --Henry Fieldseth
> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>
> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
> I remember the report
> saying that they
> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>
> In any case you inspired me to write directly
> to Dr. Yao to see what she
> thinks.
>
> This is one of the things I
> appreciate about this list so much. Great
> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>
> Jay
> Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
> (505)-281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm
> Mt Time, 7 days
>
> On
> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> >
> Jay
> >
> > The most
> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
> > The authors
> name is Shengrui Yao.
> > Also, Gordon
> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
> in NM.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Has
> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
> >>
> >> I'm in NM
> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
> >>
> >> I'm
> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
> experience?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Jay Cutts
> >>
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> >>
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
> Cards
> >> Lead Author, Barron's
> LSAT Prep Book
> >> (505)-281-0684
> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________
> >> nafex mailing list
> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >>
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> __________________
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> list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Northamerican Allied Fruit
> Experimenters
> >
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> >
>
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Re: [nafex] Jujube
Thanks, Mark.
I'm not that concerned with late frosts because they do rebloom. The
issue will be that the ENTIRE tops may be killed regularly during the
winter. This would more likely be true of young trees. Maybe once they
are established, only parts of the top would die but it is very iffy
here whether they can ever get that established.
Regards,
Jay
Jay Cutts
Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
(505)-281-0684
10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
On 12/28/2016 5:53 PM, mark wessel wrote:
> That is a huge difference. Jujubes fruit on the current years growth. They indicated late frost in spring had damaged new growth however more leaves and blooms push and they still got a crop. Also, early and mid season ripening varieties are best for northern NM since the late varieties will not ripen in time.
> The article I mentioned did not include trial results. It is too early for results, however some have fruited for six years straight. They have established trials around the state which will hopefully include your elevation.
>
>
>
>> On Dec 28, 2016, at 7:08 PM, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>>
>> First frost can be late May or even a touch the first week of June. Last frost maybe end of Sept or as late as mid-Oct if we get lucky. It's about two months shorter than 20 minutes away in town!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Cutts
>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
>> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
>> (505)-281-0684
>> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>>
>> On 12/28/2016 5:06 PM, Henry via nafex wrote:
>>> How long is the growing season at 7000 feet in New Mexico?
>>>
>>> Any chance of learning which cultivars survived at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde?
>>>
>>> --Henry Fieldseth
>>> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Wed, 12/28/16, Jay Cutts <orders@cuttsreviews.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube
>>> To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2016, 4:14 PM
>>> Thanks, Mark. I had seen
>>> the original research report. I thought Alcalde
>>> was more like 5000 but could be wrong. I think
>>> I remember the report
>>> saying that they
>>> weren't getting fruit at Alcalde.
>>> In any case you inspired me to write directly
>>> to Dr. Yao to see what she
>>> thinks.
>>> This is one of the things I
>>> appreciate about this list so much. Great
>>> expertise and enthusiasm among you all!!
>>> Regards,
>>> Jay
>>> Jay
>>> Cutts
>>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards
>>> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book
>>> (505)-281-0684
>>> 10 am to 10 pm
>>> Mt Time, 7 days
>>> On
>>> 12/28/2016 2:52 PM, mark wessel wrote:
>>> >
>>> Jay
>>> >
>>> > The most
>>> recent Hort Science has an article "Jujube, an Alternative
>>> Fruit crop for the Southwestern US". The author is from
>>> New Mexico State. Evidently they are trialing over 50
>>> cultivars at the Sustainable Ag Science Center in Alcalde.
>>> It is at least 5700 ft elevation. They referenced a
>>> hardiness to -30C or -22F.
>>> > The authors
>>> name is Shengrui Yao.
>>> > Also, Gordon
>>> Tooley of Tooleys trees may have some insight into hardiness
>>> in NM.
>>> >
>>> > Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On Dec 28, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Jay Cutts
>>> <orders@cuttsreviews.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Has
>>> anyone successfully grown jujube in zone 5 or colder?
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm in NM
>>> at 7000 feet. There are a number of trees that I've
>>> tried here that ought to grow in even colder climates but
>>> which get their tops killed in the winter. I think it's
>>> a combination of temperature (record lows have been -25),
>>> wind, strong sun, dryness, thaw and freeze. The trees that
>>> have topped-killed include Illinois Everbearing mulberry,
>>> American persimmon, and walnuts. The American persimmons
>>> eventually get tough enough growth to survive, but any
>>> grafted plants lose the grafted portion.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm
>>> concerned that the tops of jujubes would not make it. Any
>>> experience?
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> Jay
>>> >>
>>> >> Jay Cutts
>>> >>
>>> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
>>> >>
>>> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
>>> >> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash
>>> Cards
>>> >> Lead Author, Barron's
>>> LSAT Prep Book
>>> >> (505)-281-0684
>>> >> 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> __________________
>>> >> nafex mailing list
>>> >> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit
>>> Experimenters
>>> >>
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>> >
>>> __________________
>>> > nafex mailing
>>> list
>>> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit
>>> Experimenters
>>> >
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>> >
>>> __________________
>>> nafex
>>> mailing list
>>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
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>>>
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