[nafex] A refreshing jujube salad for the September heat wave

A refreshing jujube salad for the September heat wave <https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.alhambrasource.org/news/refreshing-jujube-salad-september-heat-wave&ct=ga&cd=CAEYASoTNTM2NTgyODY5OTg1MzEyMjgxNTIaZjRlN2RmYWJjMWM5MzQ3Njpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNHWKLix-ruetpwuSQMwTcQo76YiZg>
Alhambra (California) Source
Toss melon and jujube together and include any juices that have collected at the bottom of their bowls. Arrange in a nice pile over yogurt. Sprinkle lime ...

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[nafex] New Mexico State Univ. to host workshop, fruit tasting of jujubes at Alcalde

NMSU to host workshop, fruit tasting of Chinese dates at Alcalde <https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://newscenter.nmsu.edu/Articles/view/11391/nmsu-to-host-workshop-fruit-tasting-of-chinese-dates-at-alcalde&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTA0NDQ3NDQyOTA3MjE0MDUxOTAyGmY0ZTdkZmFiYzFjOTM0NzY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNFipDPshfPXqulOysVfdklM8GrG8g>
New Mexico State University NewsCenter
ALCALDE - There's another bumper crop of Chinese dates on the jujube trees at New Mexico State University's Sustainable Agriculture Science ...

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[nafex] Was: Yates persimmon; now SFES

Jerry,
You mentioned 'SFES'... it's a selection that I've sent to you in the past, wondering if it might be polygamodioecious male... but you and I both have determined that it probably is not.
The ortet is a chance seedling from Christian Co., KY, growing in a roadside fenceline along KY 91, directly across the road from Sinking Fork Elementary School (hence the SFES moniker). Most years, it produces about 80% small (1") seedless fruits, and about 20% larger (1.5") fruits, containing a single, plump, well-filled seed.

Lucky

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Lehman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 9:30 AM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon

Hi Jackie,

You certainly have my permission and maybe I should expand upon the explanation. I'm sure that Lucky and Betsy fully understand but it may be a little too technical for newer, less experienced persimmon readers.
When I wrote that the thought went through my mind of writing a longer article for Pomona and the Indiana nut and fruit growers and anyone else who might wish to publish. But you can certainly let it go the way it is if you wish.

Right now I'm very busy as last Friday we shipped almost 700 pounds to the processor and yesterday the pickers picked another 400 pounds. I also have 3 small orders for pawpaw to ship today. I need to write a report for the winter issue once harvest is over. I've not written a report as the persimmon chair in several years.

Please remind me later on.

Jerry

On 9/21/2015 9:31 AM, Jacquelyn Kuehn wrote:
> My friends, you've written an article's worth of valuable information. May I reprint this exchange in a Pomona?
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Jackie
>
>
> Jacquelyn Kuehn
>
> pennsacreskitchen.net
>
>> On Sep 21, 2015, at 7:41 AM, nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>>
>> Send nafex mailing list submissions to
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
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>> nafex-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Yates persimmon update (Jerry Lehman)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 07:35:28 -0400
>> From: Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
>> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update
>> Message-ID: <55FFEB80.5000902@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> Good Morning Lucky and Betsy,
>>
>> There is no hard dividing line between the range of 60 and 90
>> chromosome race of persimmon. I feel sure that North of the Ohio
>> River you will find some sixties and South you will find some
>> nineties. And we are finding that many of the 90 chromosome
>> persimmons will set seedless fruit without a 90 C pollinator. Also
>> some varieties of the 90 C will set some seedless fruit when there is ample 90 C pollen available.
>> Mohler seedless is an example of a variety setting many seedless
>> fruits in the presence of ample pollination. The Meader persimmon
>> with 90 C pollen available will set fully seeded fruit, with only 60
>> C pollen available will set seedless fruit and if the flowers are
>> bagged preventing pollen from any plant reaching the pistols will not
>> set fruit at all. When this was discovered Prof. Meader questioned if
>> chestnut pollen could possibly be triggering the parthenocarpic
>> characteristic of the Meader persimmon because in his area his
>> chestnut catkins dehist pollen at the same time. I have 4 named
>> pistillate varieties of 60 C persimmon here with no 60 C males
>> nearby. Three of the 4 drop may be 90% of the fruit without ripening while the 4th, Cliff England's "SFES"
>> variety matures fruit with empty seed cases and occasionally a seed
>> without fully developed cotyledon flesh. Confusing? Oh, and
>> hybridizing the 60 C and 90 C theoretically is not possible because
>> 15 chromosomes remain unpaired.
>>
>> Betsy, I believe the answer to your question regarding the Yates/Juhl
>> variety is the 1st 3 years no 90 chromosome pollen reached the tree
>> so it was seedless. The 4th year there was ample pollen available and
>> it basically set seeded fruit. The persimmon flower consists of 4
>> stigma and style with 2 eggs at the base of each style providing for
>> a possible fully seeded fruit with 8 seeds and one pollen grain is
>> required for each seed. Therefore theoretically the number of seeds
>> is heavily dependent upon the amount of pollen that reaches the
>> flower which can vary year to year depending on weather conditions.
>>
>> Early Golden will occasionally bear male flowers. I emphasize
>> occasionally. Mr. Claypool used to refer to them as the rare male
>> flower. I have early Golden, Killen, and Garretson, all 3 here, and
>> only once have ever seen male flowers on my Killen, never on early
>> Golden nor Garretson. But I confess I have not eagerly sought male
>> flowers every year. Back in the early nineties while Claypool was
>> still actively breeding using what I call female pollen I went over
>> to observe and learn his techniques. In one Killen tree was one
>> current year growth branch and one current year growth branch on
>> early Golden with male flowers and these were on trees that he was
>> using ladders to get up to the branches maybe 15 feet in the air. And
>> these were the sum total of sport branches on 2 very mature trees. In
>> spite of some reports there is nowhere near enough male flowers to
>> pollinate a tree. Therefore I do not believe that your pruning was
>> the cause for sudden setting of nearly seedless fruit. My thought is,
>> some conditions such as whether reduced the amount of pollen
>> available to the flowers, reducing the seed count from 6 to 1.
>>
>> When Mr. Claypool found a sport bearing staminate flowers he would
>> tie a ribbon to it, marking it. The following year when that sport
>> would produce additional branches he would watch and if a branched
>> produce pistillate flowers he would cut that branch off. His attempts
>> to produce limbs bearing only male flowers naturally failed. He did
>> have some small branchlets with maybe 3 years growth producing only
>> male flowers but it was achieved by pruning not by natural selection.
>> In other words the sport that produced male flowers in 2nd year's
>> growth would revert back to pistillate flowers. They acted like a
>> chimera, that is a mixture of cells containing different chromosomes or different recombination of genes.
>>
>> A side note of possible interest: Last spring Doug Fell found one
>> small
>> 8 inch branch on his early Golden with male flowers, the 1st he had
>> ever seen. The 1st one that I have seen in maybe 5 years. Doug cut it
>> from the tree and I made 4 Greenwood grafts of that piece and 3 were
>> successful. When they flower will they produce staminate flowers?
>> That remains to be seen but Mr. Claypool reported that when he and
>> Prof. JC McDaniel grafted limbs producing male flowers they reverted
>> to producing pistillate flowers. And yes when male flowers are
>> produced on pistillate trees they are single branches that I believe are sport limbs.
>>
>> Jerry Lehman
>>
>>
>> On 9/20/2015 9:15 PM, Louis Pittman wrote:
>>
>> I'm 'supposed' to be in 60-chromosome land, too... supposedly, the
>> Ohio River is the 'dividing line' between 90-C and 60-C, and I'm
>> over 100 miles south of the Ohio. All my 90-C females have produced
>> mostly seeded fruit, for years... some less seedy than others, and
>> occasionally some seedless fruit.
>> Yes, I have Garretson and Early Golden and some of the Claypools, so
>> maybe they're pushing male flowers, but I was getting seeded fruits
>> when all I had were a couple of non-EG heritage females.
>>
>> Lucky
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth<ehilborn@mebtel.net> wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates'
>>> persimmon contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The
>>> tree has been bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area
>>> with only 60 chromosome natives. There are no other 90 chromosome
>>> trees nearby (to my knowledge) except in my orchard. In 2014 these
>>> consisted of 3 selected varieties of grafted female kakis, 2 of which were old enough to bloom, and the Yates.
>>>
>>> Last year each Yates fruit contained 5 - 6 fully formed seeds. This
>>> year, they contain an average of about 1 seed per fruit. Most fruits
>>> are seedless, some have had up to 3 seeds per fruit.
>>>
>>> What has changed: I performed winter pruning this spring so it is
>>> possible that I pruned off a branch on a tree that had previously
>>> produced male flowers. I lost my Wase Fuyu during our unusually cold
>>> winter so it did not produce flowers this spring. The third kaki
>>> produced blooms for the first time in 2015.
>>>
>>> What I discovered: I evaluated each surviving persimmon tree for
>>> male flowers this spring. I detected none. Although I was looking
>>> for sports, so if I saw a branch covered with female flowers, I did
>>> not examine each flower on the branch, it is possible that I missed
>>> individual male flowers (if that occurs).
>>>
>>> I propagated every seed from the 2014 Yates crop. I guess I will
>>> find out what the 2014 pollinizer was in 8 years or so!
>>>
>>> Betsy Hilborn
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> __________________
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>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user
>> config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of nafex Digest, Vol 155, Issue 1
>> *************************************
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Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Elizabeth <ehilborn@mebtel.net> wrote:

> I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates' persimmon
> contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The tree has been
> bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area with only 60 chromosome
> natives. There are no other 90 chromosome trees nearby (to my knowledge)
> except in my orchard.


Betsey:
FWIW you might want to contact Walter Atwater on Collins Road, in your
extended neighborhood. He has two persimmon trees that are very old, large
caliper - 12" at least, literally dripping with large ripening persimmons
with good orange coloration. I found a single ripe one
that had at least five seeds and good flavor. A storm broke out the largest
top branches years ago otherwise it would be very tall and a bearer record
breaker. Fruit are very round with consistent large size. I can't remember
ever seeing a local wild persimmon tree of this quality. Walter would
probably be willing to have you visit to see the trees, gather some fruit
for seeds or take cuttings. The soil on this land is average but has good
water holding capacity. The trees are growing on a slight eastward slope
with good sun exposure.
LL


--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
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Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon

Hi Jackie,

You certainly have my permission and maybe I should expand upon the
explanation. I'm sure that Lucky and Betsy fully understand but it may
be a little too technical for newer, less experienced persimmon readers.
When I wrote that the thought went through my mind of writing a longer
article for Pomona and the Indiana nut and fruit growers and anyone else
who might wish to publish. But you can certainly let it go the way it is
if you wish.

Right now I'm very busy as last Friday we shipped almost 700 pounds to
the processor and yesterday the pickers picked another 400 pounds. I
also have 3 small orders for pawpaw to ship today. I need to write a
report for the winter issue once harvest is over. I've not written a
report as the persimmon chair in several years.

Please remind me later on.

Jerry

On 9/21/2015 9:31 AM, Jacquelyn Kuehn wrote:
> My friends, you've written an article's worth of valuable information. May I reprint this exchange in a Pomona?
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Jackie
>
>
> Jacquelyn Kuehn
>
> pennsacreskitchen.net
>
>> On Sep 21, 2015, at 7:41 AM, nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>>
>> Send nafex mailing list submissions to
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> nafex-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Yates persimmon update (Jerry Lehman)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 07:35:28 -0400
>> From: Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
>> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update
>> Message-ID: <55FFEB80.5000902@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> Good Morning Lucky and Betsy,
>>
>> There is no hard dividing line between the range of 60 and 90 chromosome
>> race of persimmon. I feel sure that North of the Ohio River you will
>> find some sixties and South you will find some nineties. And we are
>> finding that many of the 90 chromosome persimmons will set seedless
>> fruit without a 90 C pollinator. Also some varieties of the 90 C will
>> set some seedless fruit when there is ample 90 C pollen available.
>> Mohler seedless is an example of a variety setting many seedless fruits
>> in the presence of ample pollination. The Meader persimmon with 90 C
>> pollen available will set fully seeded fruit, with only 60 C pollen
>> available will set seedless fruit and if the flowers are bagged
>> preventing pollen from any plant reaching the pistols will not set fruit
>> at all. When this was discovered Prof. Meader questioned if chestnut
>> pollen could possibly be triggering the parthenocarpic characteristic of
>> the Meader persimmon because in his area his chestnut catkins dehist
>> pollen at the same time. I have 4 named pistillate varieties of 60 C
>> persimmon here with no 60 C males nearby. Three of the 4 drop may be 90%
>> of the fruit without ripening while the 4th, Cliff England's "SFES"
>> variety matures fruit with empty seed cases and occasionally a seed
>> without fully developed cotyledon flesh. Confusing? Oh, and hybridizing
>> the 60 C and 90 C theoretically is not possible because 15 chromosomes
>> remain unpaired.
>>
>> Betsy, I believe the answer to your question regarding the Yates/Juhl
>> variety is the 1st 3 years no 90 chromosome pollen reached the tree so
>> it was seedless. The 4th year there was ample pollen available and it
>> basically set seeded fruit. The persimmon flower consists of 4 stigma
>> and style with 2 eggs at the base of each style providing for a possible
>> fully seeded fruit with 8 seeds and one pollen grain is required for
>> each seed. Therefore theoretically the number of seeds is heavily
>> dependent upon the amount of pollen that reaches the flower which can
>> vary year to year depending on weather conditions.
>>
>> Early Golden will occasionally bear male flowers. I emphasize
>> occasionally. Mr. Claypool used to refer to them as the rare male
>> flower. I have early Golden, Killen, and Garretson, all 3 here, and only
>> once have ever seen male flowers on my Killen, never on early Golden nor
>> Garretson. But I confess I have not eagerly sought male flowers every
>> year. Back in the early nineties while Claypool was still actively
>> breeding using what I call female pollen I went over to observe and
>> learn his techniques. In one Killen tree was one current year growth
>> branch and one current year growth branch on early Golden with male
>> flowers and these were on trees that he was using ladders to get up to
>> the branches maybe 15 feet in the air. And these were the sum total of
>> sport branches on 2 very mature trees. In spite of some reports there is
>> nowhere near enough male flowers to pollinate a tree. Therefore I do not
>> believe that your pruning was the cause for sudden setting of nearly
>> seedless fruit. My thought is, some conditions such as whether reduced
>> the amount of pollen available to the flowers, reducing the seed count
>> from 6 to 1.
>>
>> When Mr. Claypool found a sport bearing staminate flowers he would tie a
>> ribbon to it, marking it. The following year when that sport would
>> produce additional branches he would watch and if a branched produce
>> pistillate flowers he would cut that branch off. His attempts to produce
>> limbs bearing only male flowers naturally failed. He did have some small
>> branchlets with maybe 3 years growth producing only male flowers but it
>> was achieved by pruning not by natural selection. In other words the
>> sport that produced male flowers in 2nd year's growth would revert back
>> to pistillate flowers. They acted like a chimera, that is a mixture of
>> cells containing different chromosomes or different recombination of genes.
>>
>> A side note of possible interest: Last spring Doug Fell found one small
>> 8 inch branch on his early Golden with male flowers, the 1st he had ever
>> seen. The 1st one that I have seen in maybe 5 years. Doug cut it from
>> the tree and I made 4 Greenwood grafts of that piece and 3 were
>> successful. When they flower will they produce staminate flowers? That
>> remains to be seen but Mr. Claypool reported that when he and Prof. JC
>> McDaniel grafted limbs producing male flowers they reverted to producing
>> pistillate flowers. And yes when male flowers are produced on pistillate
>> trees they are single branches that I believe are sport limbs.
>>
>> Jerry Lehman
>>
>>
>> On 9/20/2015 9:15 PM, Louis Pittman wrote:
>>
>> I'm 'supposed' to be in 60-chromosome land, too... supposedly, the Ohio
>> River is the 'dividing line' between 90-C and 60-C, and I'm over 100 miles
>> south of the Ohio. All my 90-C females have produced mostly seeded fruit,
>> for years... some less seedy than others, and occasionally some seedless
>> fruit.
>> Yes, I have Garretson and Early Golden and some of the Claypools, so maybe
>> they're pushing male flowers, but I was getting seeded fruits when all I
>> had were a couple of non-EG heritage females.
>>
>> Lucky
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth<ehilborn@mebtel.net> wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates' persimmon
>>> contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The tree has been
>>> bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area with only 60 chromosome
>>> natives. There are no other 90 chromosome trees nearby (to my knowledge)
>>> except in my orchard. In 2014 these consisted of 3 selected varieties of
>>> grafted female kakis, 2 of which were old enough to bloom, and the Yates.
>>>
>>> Last year each Yates fruit contained 5 - 6 fully formed seeds. This year,
>>> they contain an average of about 1 seed per fruit. Most fruits are
>>> seedless, some have had up to 3 seeds per fruit.
>>>
>>> What has changed: I performed winter pruning this spring so it is possible
>>> that I pruned off a branch on a tree that had previously produced male
>>> flowers. I lost my Wase Fuyu during our unusually cold winter so it did not
>>> produce flowers this spring. The third kaki produced blooms for the first
>>> time in 2015.
>>>
>>> What I discovered: I evaluated each surviving persimmon tree for male
>>> flowers this spring. I detected none. Although I was looking for sports, so
>>> if I saw a branch covered with female flowers, I did not examine each
>>> flower on the branch, it is possible that I missed individual male flowers
>>> (if that occurs).
>>>
>>> I propagated every seed from the 2014 Yates crop. I guess I will find out
>>> what the 2014 pollinizer was in 8 years or so!
>>>
>>> Betsy Hilborn
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of nafex Digest, Vol 155, Issue 1
>> *************************************
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

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[nafex] Yates persimmon

My friends, you've written an article's worth of valuable information. May I reprint this exchange in a Pomona?

Thanks so much.

Jackie

Jacquelyn Kuehn

pennsacreskitchen.net

> On Sep 21, 2015, at 7:41 AM, nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>
> Send nafex mailing list submissions to
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nafex-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Yates persimmon update (Jerry Lehman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 07:35:28 -0400
> From: Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update
> Message-ID: <55FFEB80.5000902@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Good Morning Lucky and Betsy,
>
> There is no hard dividing line between the range of 60 and 90 chromosome
> race of persimmon. I feel sure that North of the Ohio River you will
> find some sixties and South you will find some nineties. And we are
> finding that many of the 90 chromosome persimmons will set seedless
> fruit without a 90 C pollinator. Also some varieties of the 90 C will
> set some seedless fruit when there is ample 90 C pollen available.
> Mohler seedless is an example of a variety setting many seedless fruits
> in the presence of ample pollination. The Meader persimmon with 90 C
> pollen available will set fully seeded fruit, with only 60 C pollen
> available will set seedless fruit and if the flowers are bagged
> preventing pollen from any plant reaching the pistols will not set fruit
> at all. When this was discovered Prof. Meader questioned if chestnut
> pollen could possibly be triggering the parthenocarpic characteristic of
> the Meader persimmon because in his area his chestnut catkins dehist
> pollen at the same time. I have 4 named pistillate varieties of 60 C
> persimmon here with no 60 C males nearby. Three of the 4 drop may be 90%
> of the fruit without ripening while the 4th, Cliff England's "SFES"
> variety matures fruit with empty seed cases and occasionally a seed
> without fully developed cotyledon flesh. Confusing? Oh, and hybridizing
> the 60 C and 90 C theoretically is not possible because 15 chromosomes
> remain unpaired.
>
> Betsy, I believe the answer to your question regarding the Yates/Juhl
> variety is the 1st 3 years no 90 chromosome pollen reached the tree so
> it was seedless. The 4th year there was ample pollen available and it
> basically set seeded fruit. The persimmon flower consists of 4 stigma
> and style with 2 eggs at the base of each style providing for a possible
> fully seeded fruit with 8 seeds and one pollen grain is required for
> each seed. Therefore theoretically the number of seeds is heavily
> dependent upon the amount of pollen that reaches the flower which can
> vary year to year depending on weather conditions.
>
> Early Golden will occasionally bear male flowers. I emphasize
> occasionally. Mr. Claypool used to refer to them as the rare male
> flower. I have early Golden, Killen, and Garretson, all 3 here, and only
> once have ever seen male flowers on my Killen, never on early Golden nor
> Garretson. But I confess I have not eagerly sought male flowers every
> year. Back in the early nineties while Claypool was still actively
> breeding using what I call female pollen I went over to observe and
> learn his techniques. In one Killen tree was one current year growth
> branch and one current year growth branch on early Golden with male
> flowers and these were on trees that he was using ladders to get up to
> the branches maybe 15 feet in the air. And these were the sum total of
> sport branches on 2 very mature trees. In spite of some reports there is
> nowhere near enough male flowers to pollinate a tree. Therefore I do not
> believe that your pruning was the cause for sudden setting of nearly
> seedless fruit. My thought is, some conditions such as whether reduced
> the amount of pollen available to the flowers, reducing the seed count
> from 6 to 1.
>
> When Mr. Claypool found a sport bearing staminate flowers he would tie a
> ribbon to it, marking it. The following year when that sport would
> produce additional branches he would watch and if a branched produce
> pistillate flowers he would cut that branch off. His attempts to produce
> limbs bearing only male flowers naturally failed. He did have some small
> branchlets with maybe 3 years growth producing only male flowers but it
> was achieved by pruning not by natural selection. In other words the
> sport that produced male flowers in 2nd year's growth would revert back
> to pistillate flowers. They acted like a chimera, that is a mixture of
> cells containing different chromosomes or different recombination of genes.
>
> A side note of possible interest: Last spring Doug Fell found one small
> 8 inch branch on his early Golden with male flowers, the 1st he had ever
> seen. The 1st one that I have seen in maybe 5 years. Doug cut it from
> the tree and I made 4 Greenwood grafts of that piece and 3 were
> successful. When they flower will they produce staminate flowers? That
> remains to be seen but Mr. Claypool reported that when he and Prof. JC
> McDaniel grafted limbs producing male flowers they reverted to producing
> pistillate flowers. And yes when male flowers are produced on pistillate
> trees they are single branches that I believe are sport limbs.
>
> Jerry Lehman
>
>
> On 9/20/2015 9:15 PM, Louis Pittman wrote:
>
> I'm 'supposed' to be in 60-chromosome land, too... supposedly, the Ohio
> River is the 'dividing line' between 90-C and 60-C, and I'm over 100 miles
> south of the Ohio. All my 90-C females have produced mostly seeded fruit,
> for years... some less seedy than others, and occasionally some seedless
> fruit.
> Yes, I have Garretson and Early Golden and some of the Claypools, so maybe
> they're pushing male flowers, but I was getting seeded fruits when all I
> had were a couple of non-EG heritage females.
>
> Lucky
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth<ehilborn@mebtel.net> wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates' persimmon
>> contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The tree has been
>> bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area with only 60 chromosome
>> natives. There are no other 90 chromosome trees nearby (to my knowledge)
>> except in my orchard. In 2014 these consisted of 3 selected varieties of
>> grafted female kakis, 2 of which were old enough to bloom, and the Yates.
>>
>> Last year each Yates fruit contained 5 - 6 fully formed seeds. This year,
>> they contain an average of about 1 seed per fruit. Most fruits are
>> seedless, some have had up to 3 seeds per fruit.
>>
>> What has changed: I performed winter pruning this spring so it is possible
>> that I pruned off a branch on a tree that had previously produced male
>> flowers. I lost my Wase Fuyu during our unusually cold winter so it did not
>> produce flowers this spring. The third kaki produced blooms for the first
>> time in 2015.
>>
>> What I discovered: I evaluated each surviving persimmon tree for male
>> flowers this spring. I detected none. Although I was looking for sports, so
>> if I saw a branch covered with female flowers, I did not examine each
>> flower on the branch, it is possible that I missed individual male flowers
>> (if that occurs).
>>
>> I propagated every seed from the 2014 Yates crop. I guess I will find out
>> what the 2014 pollinizer was in 8 years or so!
>>
>> Betsy Hilborn
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of nafex Digest, Vol 155, Issue 1
> *************************************

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Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update

Good Morning Lucky and Betsy,

There is no hard dividing line between the range of 60 and 90 chromosome
race of persimmon. I feel sure that North of the Ohio River you will
find some sixties and South you will find some nineties. And we are
finding that many of the 90 chromosome persimmons will set seedless
fruit without a 90 C pollinator. Also some varieties of the 90 C will
set some seedless fruit when there is ample 90 C pollen available.
Mohler seedless is an example of a variety setting many seedless fruits
in the presence of ample pollination. The Meader persimmon with 90 C
pollen available will set fully seeded fruit, with only 60 C pollen
available will set seedless fruit and if the flowers are bagged
preventing pollen from any plant reaching the pistols will not set fruit
at all. When this was discovered Prof. Meader questioned if chestnut
pollen could possibly be triggering the parthenocarpic characteristic of
the Meader persimmon because in his area his chestnut catkins dehist
pollen at the same time. I have 4 named pistillate varieties of 60 C
persimmon here with no 60 C males nearby. Three of the 4 drop may be 90%
of the fruit without ripening while the 4th, Cliff England's "SFES"
variety matures fruit with empty seed cases and occasionally a seed
without fully developed cotyledon flesh. Confusing? Oh, and hybridizing
the 60 C and 90 C theoretically is not possible because 15 chromosomes
remain unpaired.

Betsy, I believe the answer to your question regarding the Yates/Juhl
variety is the 1st 3 years no 90 chromosome pollen reached the tree so
it was seedless. The 4th year there was ample pollen available and it
basically set seeded fruit. The persimmon flower consists of 4 stigma
and style with 2 eggs at the base of each style providing for a possible
fully seeded fruit with 8 seeds and one pollen grain is required for
each seed. Therefore theoretically the number of seeds is heavily
dependent upon the amount of pollen that reaches the flower which can
vary year to year depending on weather conditions.

Early Golden will occasionally bear male flowers. I emphasize
occasionally. Mr. Claypool used to refer to them as the rare male
flower. I have early Golden, Killen, and Garretson, all 3 here, and only
once have ever seen male flowers on my Killen, never on early Golden nor
Garretson. But I confess I have not eagerly sought male flowers every
year. Back in the early nineties while Claypool was still actively
breeding using what I call female pollen I went over to observe and
learn his techniques. In one Killen tree was one current year growth
branch and one current year growth branch on early Golden with male
flowers and these were on trees that he was using ladders to get up to
the branches maybe 15 feet in the air. And these were the sum total of
sport branches on 2 very mature trees. In spite of some reports there is
nowhere near enough male flowers to pollinate a tree. Therefore I do not
believe that your pruning was the cause for sudden setting of nearly
seedless fruit. My thought is, some conditions such as whether reduced
the amount of pollen available to the flowers, reducing the seed count
from 6 to 1.

When Mr. Claypool found a sport bearing staminate flowers he would tie a
ribbon to it, marking it. The following year when that sport would
produce additional branches he would watch and if a branched produce
pistillate flowers he would cut that branch off. His attempts to produce
limbs bearing only male flowers naturally failed. He did have some small
branchlets with maybe 3 years growth producing only male flowers but it
was achieved by pruning not by natural selection. In other words the
sport that produced male flowers in 2nd year's growth would revert back
to pistillate flowers. They acted like a chimera, that is a mixture of
cells containing different chromosomes or different recombination of genes.

A side note of possible interest: Last spring Doug Fell found one small
8 inch branch on his early Golden with male flowers, the 1st he had ever
seen. The 1st one that I have seen in maybe 5 years. Doug cut it from
the tree and I made 4 Greenwood grafts of that piece and 3 were
successful. When they flower will they produce staminate flowers? That
remains to be seen but Mr. Claypool reported that when he and Prof. JC
McDaniel grafted limbs producing male flowers they reverted to producing
pistillate flowers. And yes when male flowers are produced on pistillate
trees they are single branches that I believe are sport limbs.

Jerry Lehman


On 9/20/2015 9:15 PM, Louis Pittman wrote:

I'm 'supposed' to be in 60-chromosome land, too... supposedly, the Ohio
River is the 'dividing line' between 90-C and 60-C, and I'm over 100 miles
south of the Ohio. All my 90-C females have produced mostly seeded fruit,
for years... some less seedy than others, and occasionally some seedless
fruit.
Yes, I have Garretson and Early Golden and some of the Claypools, so maybe
they're pushing male flowers, but I was getting seeded fruits when all I
had were a couple of non-EG heritage females.

Lucky

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth<ehilborn@mebtel.net> wrote:
>Hi folks,
>I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates' persimmon
>contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The tree has been
>bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area with only 60 chromosome
>natives. There are no other 90 chromosome trees nearby (to my knowledge)
>except in my orchard. In 2014 these consisted of 3 selected varieties of
>grafted female kakis, 2 of which were old enough to bloom, and the Yates.
>
>Last year each Yates fruit contained 5 - 6 fully formed seeds. This year,
>they contain an average of about 1 seed per fruit. Most fruits are
>seedless, some have had up to 3 seeds per fruit.
>
>What has changed: I performed winter pruning this spring so it is possible
>that I pruned off a branch on a tree that had previously produced male
>flowers. I lost my Wase Fuyu during our unusually cold winter so it did not
>produce flowers this spring. The third kaki produced blooms for the first
>time in 2015.
>
>What I discovered: I evaluated each surviving persimmon tree for male
>flowers this spring. I detected none. Although I was looking for sports, so
>if I saw a branch covered with female flowers, I did not examine each
>flower on the branch, it is possible that I missed individual male flowers
>(if that occurs).
>
>I propagated every seed from the 2014 Yates crop. I guess I will find out
>what the 2014 pollinizer was in 8 years or so!
>
>Betsy Hilborn


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Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update

Betsy,
I'm 'supposed' to be in 60-chromosome land, too... supposedly, the Ohio
River is the 'dividing line' between 90-C and 60-C, and I'm over 100 miles
south of the Ohio. All my 90-C females have produced mostly seeded fruit,
for years... some less seedy than others, and occasionally some seedless
fruit.
Yes, I have Garretson and Early Golden and some of the Claypools, so maybe
they're pushing male flowers, but I was getting seeded fruits when all I
had were a couple of non-EG heritage females.

Lucky

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Elizabeth <ehilborn@mebtel.net> wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates' persimmon
> contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The tree has been
> bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area with only 60 chromosome
> natives. There are no other 90 chromosome trees nearby (to my knowledge)
> except in my orchard. In 2014 these consisted of 3 selected varieties of
> grafted female kakis, 2 of which were old enough to bloom, and the Yates.
>
> Last year each Yates fruit contained 5 - 6 fully formed seeds. This year,
> they contain an average of about 1 seed per fruit. Most fruits are
> seedless, some have had up to 3 seeds per fruit.
>
> What has changed: I performed winter pruning this spring so it is possible
> that I pruned off a branch on a tree that had previously produced male
> flowers. I lost my Wase Fuyu during our unusually cold winter so it did not
> produce flowers this spring. The third kaki produced blooms for the first
> time in 2015.
>
> What I discovered: I evaluated each surviving persimmon tree for male
> flowers this spring. I detected none. Although I was looking for sports, so
> if I saw a branch covered with female flowers, I did not examine each
> flower on the branch, it is possible that I missed individual male flowers
> (if that occurs).
>
> I propagated every seed from the 2014 Yates crop. I guess I will find out
> what the 2014 pollinizer was in 8 years or so!
>
> Betsy Hilborn
> 7a Central NC
>
>
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Re: [nafex] Yates persimmon update

Betsy,

As I have been following your antics, I certainly appreciate the updates. Keep them coming.

tfb


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[nafex] Yates persimmon update

Hi folks,
I previously posted in 2014 that I was perplexed why my 'Yates'
persimmon contained seeds for the first time since I planted it. The
tree has been bearing for about 4 years total. I live in an area with
only 60 chromosome natives. There are no other 90 chromosome trees
nearby (to my knowledge) except in my orchard. In 2014 these consisted
of 3 selected varieties of grafted female kakis, 2 of which were old
enough to bloom, and the Yates.

Last year each Yates fruit contained 5 - 6 fully formed seeds. This
year, they contain an average of about 1 seed per fruit. Most fruits are
seedless, some have had up to 3 seeds per fruit.

What has changed: I performed winter pruning this spring so it is
possible that I pruned off a branch on a tree that had previously
produced male flowers. I lost my Wase Fuyu during our unusually cold
winter so it did not produce flowers this spring. The third kaki
produced blooms for the first time in 2015.

What I discovered: I evaluated each surviving persimmon tree for male
flowers this spring. I detected none. Although I was looking for sports,
so if I saw a branch covered with female flowers, I did not examine each
flower on the branch, it is possible that I missed individual male
flowers (if that occurs).

I propagated every seed from the 2014 Yates crop. I guess I will find
out what the 2014 pollinizer was in 8 years or so!

Betsy Hilborn
7a Central NC


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[nafex] Ohio Scholar Studies Pawpaw Fruit For Future Food Products

Ohio Scholar Studies Pawpaw Fruit For Future Food Products <https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://radio.wosu.org/post/ohio-scholar-studies-pawpaw-fruit-future-food-products&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTE4MjQwMDkyMjQ4OTI2NTIwOTEyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNF6YlYciSw-sey9iRZNcLfBgbuIjg>
WOSU
September in Ohio brings not only cooler temperatures, but the ripening of a special fruit called the pawpaw. It's North America's largest native tree fruit ...









http://radio.wosu.org/post/ohio-scholar-studies-pawpaw-fruit-future-food-products <https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://radio.wosu.org/post/ohio-scholar-studies-pawpaw-fruit-future-food-products&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTE4MjQwMDkyMjQ4OTI2NTIwOTEyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNF6YlYciSw-sey9iRZNcLfBgbuIjg>

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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?

On 9/15/2015 9:51 PM, Jim Fruth wrote:
> I'm looking to buy 5 lbs. of ripe Pawpaws to be mailed to me. Do you
> know anyone who might handle my request/purchase?
Another question, what State are you in?
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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?

2. Re: Pawpaw sale? (Jim Fruth)

You might check with Jerry Lehman (INGA) or Ron Powell (OPGA). Also
check the Indiana Nut and Fruit Growers and Ohio Pawpaw Growers
Association. OPGA has a listserve.

Barb R.
Central VA Z7

Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?.eml

Subject:
Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?
From:
"Jim Fruth" <jimfruth@charter.net>
Date:
9/15/2015 9:51 PM

To:
"mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters"
<nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>


I'm looking to buy 5 lbs. of ripe Pawpaws to be mailed to me. Do you
know anyone who might handle my request/purchase?

Jim Fruth
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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?

I'm looking to buy 5 lbs. of ripe Pawpaws to be mailed to me. Do you know
anyone who might handle my request/purchase?

Jim Fruth

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Lehman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 6:38 AM
To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
Subject: Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?

On 9/15/2015 12:13 AM, Jim Fruth wrote:
> I forgot to include my email: jimfruth@charter.net
Jim,

I'm at a complete loss. Who was this message intended for? I don't have
any previous messages with the subject line, _pawpaw sale?_ If for
myself please send off-line message.
_
_Jerry_
_
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[nafex] Pawpaw tasting this Saturday

Hey y'all!

I will be presenting a Pawpaw tasting this Saturday at City Boy Farms in
Mineral, VA. Please paste:
http://vabf.org/pawpaw-tasting-and-production-workshop/
for info. It was a member only venue at the beginning, but tomorrow
will open to public.
Space is limited, so register if you'd like to come.

Barb
Z7
3Domes
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[nafex] Fruitful and fancy presentation 2015

Gang,

Our esteemed list administrator and colleague Lawrence asked that I
share this with you.

Last weekend I was asked to speak at an annual gardening festival. What
follows is the unfortunately rather hastily assembled presentation.

For those who do not make presentations, understand they serve as
outline of what you will discuss, or more like an abstract. The
presenter charged with providing details and bringing the presentation
alive through oration.

So if it seems dry, well that is the natures of the slides, they are not
living breathing things nor do they provide many details. The things
that brings them to life and adds depth and substance is the person
presenting the materials.

In the end it was very, very well received. The feedback was extremely
positive and most in attendance stated they wished it were 90 minutes
rather than an hour in duration..

Submitted for what ever it is worth...

the fluffy one

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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw sale?

On 9/15/2015 12:13 AM, Jim Fruth wrote:
> I forgot to include my email: jimfruth@charter.net
Jim,

I'm at a complete loss. Who was this message intended for? I don't have
any previous messages with the subject line, _pawpaw sale?_ If for
myself please send off-line message.
_
_Jerry_
_
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[nafex] Fruitful and fancy presentation 2015

Gang,

Our esteemed list administrator and colleague Lawrence asked that I share this with you.

Last weekend I was asked to speak at an annual gardening festival. What follows is the unfortunately rather hastily assembled presentation.

For those who do not make presentations, understand they serve as outline of what you will discuss, or more like an abstract. The presenter charged with providing details and bringing the presentation alive through oration.

So if it seems dry, well that is the natures of the slides, they are not living breathing things nor do they provide many details. The things that brigs them to life and adds depth ad substance is the person presenting the materials.

In the end it was very, very well received. The feedback was extremely positive and most in attendance stated they wished it were 90 minutes rather than an hour in duration..

Submitted for what ever it is worth...

the fluffy one

P.S.

to edwardo, ozzie and alan, I miss you guys...

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[nafex] Pawpaw sale?

I forgot to include my email: jimfruth@charter.net
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[nafex] I want to buy some Pawpaw fruit

Provide your name and address and I'll send you a check.

5 pounds?
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[nafex] The best-tasting, biggest American fruit you probably haven’t tasted (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/the-best-tasting-biggest-american-fruit-you-probably-havent-tasted/2015/09/13/ca731ff4-5701-11e5-b8c9-944725fcd3b9_story.html

The best-tasting, biggest American fruit you probably haven't tasted
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[nafex] [ARTICLE] British cherry harvest hits 30-year high

See
http://gu.com/p/4c6mz/sbl

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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[nafex] Pawpaw: America's forgotten fruit (Louisville Courier-Journal)

The Courier-Journal

Pawpaw: America's forgotten fruit <https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.courier-journal.com/story/life/food/2015/09/08/pawpaw-americas-forgotten-fruit/71454074/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYASoTMTM5OTU4Nzk1NDU2MDUzMjIxNzIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNFOVJWdyCfpV41wYoydza5r9kXddA>
( http://www.courier-journal.com/story/life/food/2015/09/08/pawpaw-americas-forgotten-fruit/71454074/ )
The Courier-Journal
The oblong green fruit from the three varieties Busch cultivated in ... State Fair, a winning streak begun in 2011 when his trees first began bearing fruit.
Reconnecting with Pawpaws, America's Forgotten Fruit<https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/09/reconnecting-with-pawpaws-americas-forgotten-fruit.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYASoTMTM5OTU4Nzk1NDU2MDUzMjIxNzIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNFaV9RV7ZZZ3gcLK3DL5KpwREFYFg> - Paste Magazine
Full Coverage <http://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=http://www.courier-journal.com/story/life/food/2015/09/08/pawpaw-americas-forgotten-fruit/71454074/&hl=en&geo=US>










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[nafex] Budding and Grafting Paw Paws

I have had very few failures when bark-grafting or chip budding paw paws.  I always try to align the foreign buds in line and between two buds on the rootstock.   I  bark graft onto a limb
 
if it is large enough to receive a scion.   Does everyone else use this procedure or do you random place buds on any smooth part of the rootstock?    I have in ground small trees for rootstock
 
that will try next spring  with buds misaligned to see it makes any difference.
 
I use the same technique when budding and grafting chestnuts and shown in '85th Annual Report' of Northern Nut Growers Association  dated Aug 1994 with excellent results.
 
Lester H. Davis
Columbus, GA
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[nafex] Apples are forbidden fruit along Lake County streets

Apples are forbidden fruit along Lake County streets <https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/apples-are-forbidden-fruit-along-lake-county-streets/article_182d53c4-e76f-5db3-8faa-c28450db745c.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYAioTMjc1MTg1NDI3MDQ4NzMyMzY2MzIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNHodcNCdjmgTm__2AS3dTttKiPAmg>
nwitimes.com
Apples are forbidden fruit along Lake County streets ... including the crab tree, because they drop fruit into the sewers, are prone to insect infestations ...
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Flag as irrelevant <https://www.google.com/alerts/feedback?ffu=http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/apples-are-forbidden-fruit-along-lake-county-streets/article_182d53c4-e76f-5db3-8faa-c28450db745c.html&source=alertsmail&hl=en&gl=US&msgid=Mjc1MTg1NDI3MDQ4NzMyMzY2Mw&s=AB2Xq4hhtCLo3fnNmJu5wWqZSX7hAEKdHPOkjAo>


Rules do not even provide for the planting of sterile cultivars or male trees

Re: [nafex] Pawpaw question and observation

I'm pretty sure Oikos pawpaws would be seedlings rather than grafted.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Henry via nafex <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
> Robert from the Men's and Women's Garden Club of Minneapolis has had great luck growing pawpaws from seed he got from Oikos.
>
> --Henry Fieldseth
> Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 9/6/15, mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Pawpaw question and observation
> To: "Anton Callaway" <marillen@earthlink.net>, "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2015, 7:48 AM
>
> I'm about 200 miles north of the
> native range of pawpaws, I was
> thinking 0% success with grafted pawpaws was a hardiness
> issue, but
> maybe there is something else going on. A few of my
> grated trees that
> died had done well in pots for a couple years and were maybe
> 1/2" or
> more caliper. Everyone has winterkilled, scion and
> rootstock.
>
> ~mIEKAL
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Anton Callaway <marillen@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > I'd had 100% success of planting grafted pawpaws until
> I tried at my most recent site. At this site, I've had
> 100% failure, though understocks do great. The most
> annoying failure was a Shennandoah tree that grew well above
> the graft for two years, then croaked this Spring.
> >
> > Anton
> > NC Piedmont
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
> >>Sent: Aug 19, 2015 9:44 AM
> >>To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied
> Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >>Cc: Cliff England <nuttrees@prtcnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [nafex] Pawpaw question and
> observation
> >>
> >>On 8/19/2015 8:56 AM, Louis Pittman wrote:
> >>> My experience has been similar to mIEKAL's -
> container-grown pawpaws that I
> >>> grafted and transplanted a year or so later,
> often grew for a year or two,
> >>> then the graft 'woke up dead' after winter, and
> the understock re-grew.
> >>> Now... in-groung established seedlings that
> were topworked to named
> >>> selections... no decline or death of the
> grafted variety.
> >>>
> >>> But, again, it may be that if I did more than
> chunk 'em in the ground and
> >>> walk away, they might have fared better.
> >>Lucky,
> >>
> >>Thanks for your input, I would like to hear if
> others have had the same
> >>experience. It is quite common for a grafted tree to
> abort the graft the
> >>year of planting if it comes under stress. I've not
> heard reports of
> >>this following survival of the 1st year. This may be
> problematic with
> >>pawpaws and may be involved with the pawpaws dislike
> for being
> >>transplanted.
> >>
> >>In thinking about personal experience. I've only
> planted 3 grafted
> >>potted pawpaws and none of them survived the past 2
> years. One that did
> >>survive after the graft failed died the 3rd year.
> But my experience with
> >>only 3 instances isn't enough to draw a conclusion.
> I believe it was
> >>partially my fault as I may not have cared for them
> sufficiently. We
> >>need to hear from more planters of grafted potted
> pawpaws.
> >>
> >>About 5 years ago I planted 33 pawpaw seedlings from
> the IDNR nursery.
> >>I also have a wild population and took the tractor
> back and brought in
> >>dirt from those root systems in an attempt to bring
> in the Mycorrhizae
> >>fungi specific to a Asimina and back filled the
> holes of every other one
> >>with this soil. I do have a water wagon that I can
> hall 200 gallons at a
> >>time and spray onto the ground, simulating rain. I
> had also applied
> >>pelletized sulfur to the ground and tilled in before
> planting. They were
> >>planted in well dug holes, not chunked in. (Lucky,
> not trying to put
> >>your method down as it's difficult not to do much
> else when planting
> >>potted pawpaws.) After planting when active
> growth had begun which is
> >>when I normally graft trees I grafted all of them
> using the Omega or
> >>saddle graft. Of the 33, none of the grafts survived
> past the 1st year
> >>and only 3 of the under stock survived. It's hell a
> be a total failure,
> >>and after all that work of planting those 33!
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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Re: [nafex] Pawpaw question and observation

Robert from the Men's and Women's Garden Club of Minneapolis has had great luck growing pawpaws from seed he got from Oikos.

--Henry Fieldseth
Minneapolis, MN, Zone 4

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/6/15, mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nafex] Pawpaw question and observation
To: "Anton Callaway" <marillen@earthlink.net>, "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2015, 7:48 AM

I'm about 200 miles north of the
native range of pawpaws, I was
thinking 0% success with grafted pawpaws was a hardiness
issue, but
maybe there is something else going on.  A few of my
grated trees that
died had done well in pots for a couple years and were maybe
1/2" or
more caliper.  Everyone has winterkilled, scion and
rootstock.

~mIEKAL



On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Anton Callaway <marillen@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> I'd had 100% success of planting grafted pawpaws until
I tried at my most recent site.  At this site, I've had
100% failure, though understocks do great.  The most
annoying failure was a Shennandoah tree that grew well above
the graft for two years, then croaked this Spring.
>
> Anton
> NC Piedmont
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Jerry Lehman <jwlehmantree@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Aug 19, 2015 9:44 AM
>>To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied
Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>Cc: Cliff England <nuttrees@prtcnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nafex] Pawpaw question and
observation
>>
>>On 8/19/2015 8:56 AM, Louis Pittman wrote:
>>> My experience has been similar to mIEKAL's -
container-grown pawpaws that I
>>> grafted and transplanted a year or so later,
often grew for a year or two,
>>> then the graft 'woke up dead' after winter, and
the understock re-grew.
>>> Now... in-groung established seedlings that
were topworked to named
>>> selections... no decline or death of the
grafted variety.
>>>
>>> But, again, it may be that if I did more than
chunk 'em in the ground and
>>> walk away, they might have fared better.
>>Lucky,
>>
>>Thanks for your input, I would like to hear if
others have had the same
>>experience. It is quite common for a grafted tree to
abort the graft the
>>year of planting if it comes under stress. I've not
heard reports of
>>this following survival of the 1st year. This may be
problematic with
>>pawpaws and may be involved with the pawpaws dislike
for being
>>transplanted.
>>
>>In thinking about personal experience. I've only
planted 3 grafted
>>potted pawpaws and none of them survived the past 2
years. One that did
>>survive after the graft failed died the 3rd year.
But my experience with
>>only 3 instances isn't enough to draw a conclusion.
I believe it was
>>partially my fault as I may not have cared for them
sufficiently. We
>>need to hear from more planters of grafted potted
pawpaws.
>>
>>About 5 years ago I planted 33 pawpaw seedlings from
the IDNR nursery.
>>I also have a wild population and took the tractor
back and brought in
>>dirt from those root systems in an attempt to bring
in the Mycorrhizae
>>fungi specific to a Asimina and back filled the
holes of every other one
>>with this soil. I do have a water wagon that I can
hall 200 gallons at a
>>time and spray onto the ground, simulating rain. I
had also applied
>>pelletized sulfur to the ground and tilled in before
planting. They were
>>planted in well dug holes, not chunked in. (Lucky,
not trying to put
>>your method down as it's difficult not to do much
else when planting
>>potted pawpaws.)  After planting when active
growth had begun which is
>>when I normally graft trees I grafted all of them
using the Omega or
>>saddle graft. Of the 33, none of the grafts survived
past the 1st year
>>and only 3 of the under stock survived. It's hell a
be a total failure,
>>and after all that work of planting those 33!
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________
>>nafex mailing list
>>nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters
>>subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
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>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex
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>>site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex
[searchstring]
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>>http://ifneb.blogspot.com IFNEB Blog
>>http://groups.google.com/group/permaculturelist
>>http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist
>>https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist
>>Avant Geared  http://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>
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